Steven J. Stein, PH.D. CEO of Multiple Health Systems, Inc (MHS), guests today. Dr. Stein heads this leading psychological testing company, a three-time Profit 100 winner (awarded to the fastest growing Canadian companies)
He is the author of The Seven Keys to an Emotionally Intelligent Organization. He is our radio guest today and will be discussing the value of emotional intelligence in leadership roles, with particular emphasis on Entrepreneurship. Dr. Stein and his company are the world leaders in testin for Emotional Intelligence.
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It's Showtime! (Music)
Hello out there! This is Stephen J. Blakesley, your host for this evening's edition of Entrepreneurs R Us. This is a show about entrepreneurs. Who are entrepreneurs and by entrepreneurs. Some may wonder, what exactly is an entrepreneur? Well, Webster's defines entrepreneur as one who organizes and assumes the risk of business, but the more practical definition is, anyone who can take an idea and work with it to make money. We do have a great show for you tonight, so stay tuned for the news you can use, then our guest.
This is Stephen J. Blakesley, that wild and crazy guy. We have got a wonderful show for you this evening. We have got an outstanding exciting guest and Dr. Steven Stein, the CEO and President of Multiple Health Systems in Toronto and we are going to go right now to news you can use. First of all, I want to give you an update of a story that we have been reporting on for several months now and it is the story of Lemonade Day. And for those of you who don't know when Lemonade Day really is, it was May 1st and Lemonade Day is the day in which we encourage young people all across this country to participate in an entrepreneurial role and actually sell lemonade on the sidewalk if you will. On May 1, 2011, over 120,000 kids in 31 different cities participated in what's the 5th Annual Lemonade Day, it is always on May 1st. It originated in Houston, Texas by the way and this year $6.8 million worth of lemonade were sold on Lemonade Day. In 2010, only 4.8 million in lemonade were sold, but a million of that 4.8 went to charity and apart from teaching our kids how to fish, we are teaching them how they can own the pond. And I am really encouraged about the success of Lemonade Day and I want you to look forward to it next year and hopefully participate in what is a wonderful project for our children.
In the Houston Chronicle, there is a local item that I'm ever excited about. It seems that finally someone is moving to break the chain of buying high and selling low when it comes to college textbooks. Young Emily Galvez got fed up with the textbook rip off that many college students took class without shoes because they couldn't afford a pair. After they bought their textbooks during the semester and even worse after they have sold them at semesters end. She decided to do something about it. She launched a new website called the Houston Book Exchange and that's www.houstonbookexchange.com, where you pay only a $1.99 for a 30-day access to list your books and buy new books or used books for next semester. You can also pay your purchase to Years Right to Access for only $9.99, way to go Emily. From the Kauffman Foundation, just a couple of weeks back on Entrepreneurs R Us, Cameron Cushman the senior analyst at the Kauffman Foundation told us about some studies on entrepreneurship and revealed that dyslexia may have a positive influence on one's propensity to be entrepreneurial in nature. And guess what, on HBO 2, Carl Schramm the president of the Kauffman Foundation is going to be putting the unique differences of dyslexia into perspective.
It seems that as many years, 35% of entrepreneurs may be dyslexic. Be sure to tune in at 7 pm, Central Daylight Time on Wednesday, that's tomorrow night the 11th, to catch this revealing and interesting show. That's HBO 2 tomorrow night at 7 pm Central Daylight Time. And finally, from the Denver Post, Larry Page the co-founder of Google recently gave the associated press a tour of Google's workshop after he reclaimed his original job as CEO on the 4th April of this year. The Pi Shop as it's called as a geeky getaway, it is open only to a few of the 26,000 somehow Google employees, but you have to pass a test even at that. It includes a question such as what speed would you use to cut aluminum with a bandsaw? That would lock me out right away. There are such tools as oscilloscopes, plasma cutters and miter saws that would certainly challenge me and possibly you as well. Its pages hope that this little perk will release stress, fulfill innovation needs and generally give access to qualified employees, tools and projects that would not otherwise be available. Many said the workshop is a number one perk in an organization that already pays for meals and many other goodies. What do I apply? And that's news you can use from Entrepreneurs R Us for tonight, a brief commercial, then our guest Dr. Steven Stein. (Interlude)
And we are back with Dr. Steven Stein, President and CEO of Multiple Health Systems in Toronto, Canada. Welcome, Dr. Stein.
Thank you. Nice to be here with you.
Let's just start off with a little bit of background to get our guests and our listeners familiar with from once you came. Would you kind of give us an update on your background leading up to MHS and why you have been involved with MHS, and how the whole idea of emotional intelligence evolved at your store?
Sure. It is a bit of an unusual story, because unlike many of your entrepreneurs my background is not in the business world, but it's more in the world of psychology. So, I started out life as a clinical psychologist and through a series of experiences I ended up opening a small business with my wife Rodine back in 1983. We set up a little company to develop and publish psychological tests in our basement, the two of us. So, we have been around doing this a long time, longer than companies like Facebook and Google and a lot of other huge companies that you heard about. Back in 1983, we started publishing tests that were primarily used in the assessment diagnosis of children with same such as ADHD -- Attention Deficit Disorders, depression, anxiety, and so on. And then we transitioned an opportunity came around in the area of public safety. First, I'll say in the area of ADHD, we have published the world's most widely used tool of attention deficit called the Conners Rating Scale, that was our first big success as an entrepreneur in that area. And then we came upon the area of public safety and corrections and we published a couple of instruments the Hare Psychopathy Checklist and a level of service inventory revised which are the world's best predictors of dangerousness and those instruments are used through our taxes, they are used through the US Prison System, the Canadian Correctional Service or Majesty's Prison Service in the United Kingdom, in Australia throughout Europe. So, we had a couple of major successes in the sort of assessment business or testing business, one on the clinical side; second on back in public safety and then we hit upon this whole big area of emotional intelligence after that.
Dr. Stein, now, you said you hit upon this area of emotional intelligence. Give us a little bit of insight into -- who were your first contacts in that area? What was it that attracted you to this whole concept of emotional intelligence?
Sure. Within the early 1990s, it happened to be giving a lecture over in Israel on assessment -- on automated assessment -- and I ran into a psychologist there by the name of Ruben Barron, and he had been working since around 1985 on a test of emotional quotient inventory or emotional quotient test. And spoke to me about, we met at the conference and he spoke to me about it and I guess he really had -- he didn't had much success in trying to interest some American test publishers and the instrument. And I thought it was quite interesting and came back and we evaluated the work he was doing. And you know one of the things we were looking for something kind of in the positive, you know a lot of our assessments and diagnostics that I have mentioned before were in the negative, you know we were dealing with things like depression and attention deficit and anxiety. And around that time, we were wondering you know we would be good if we could look at not just what's wrong with people, but start looking at what's right with people. So that was my first contact in the area of emotional intelligence to Dr. Barron and we decided to publish that instrument. We needed a bit more work and we went and collected the data, we needed North American data, we needed some more validation studies, which is what our organization is equipped to do. And shortly after we have published it, this book came out on the market by psychologist named Dan Goleman called Emotional Intelligence and it exploded, it became probably the best selling psychology book in the history of psychology, it is sold over 5 million copies in a very short period of time, made to the cover of Time Magazine -- I think that was in September 1995.
And while all that happened we were just in the process of finishing probably the only in the world's first test of emotional intelligence. So, we happened to just luck in at the right place at the right time. You know a lot our entrepreneurial success from the ADHD to the high risk. To the emotional intelligence and all of these examples, I got to say it's a lot of business acumen you might need to be successful, but luck plays a big role on this, and we just happened to hit it on the right time.
It certainly does. Luck does play a role in success no matter what, but you know I don't want to attribute to your success to luck. I know that a lot of it was hard work and there were some rather difficult times far away that you experiences moving up to that point. From that point on, did you have like dialogue with other people that were working in that space such as may be Gardner or Salovey or Mayer those guys -- how did that, is that collegiate this whole idea of emotional intelligence?
There is a bit of collegial, a bit of competition. Early on, we were collegial with Dan Goleman at the time he didn't have a test or a measure of emotional intelligence and originally he was referring a lot of people to us, but I think what happen was once he saw that so many people wanted that and he was given them all to us, he decided that he wanted to develop his own kind of a measure of emotional intelligence. We had no contact with Howard Gardner who did multiple intelligence, but we did have contact with Peter Salovey and Jack Mayer. Now they are the two guys who actually created the term emotional intelligence and then Goleman borrowed it from them, and put it on his book. So, not only did we begin dialogue with Salovey and Mayer, we published their instrument called the MSCEIT, which is an ability-based measure of emotional intelligence. So we worked with the ability model of emotional intelligence as well as the self-report model of emotional intelligence.
And there is a lot of discussion about maybe the discrepancies or the value of self-reporting assessments for those who may not be quite as in tune it is really it is self-evaluation. And it would be relatively easy to maybe answer questions in such a way that would reflect a better score on your part if you were so inclined to do that. So talk to us just a little bit about this whole concept of self-assessment and some of the good and bad of self-assessment.
Sure. In just a sort of problem of the difference between the ability based, if you think of your SATs, those kinds of general tests you take on your verbal ability or math ability, the MSCEIT ability tests are kind of like that. And then if we look at things like your actual GPA or school grades that is kind of more similar to the self-report that we are talking about. Now, on self-report people can try and build themselves up or lie or whatever. But we also build in what is known as validity scales. So, we actually try and catch people who are you know, because one of the things that a good test does, it is based on a large norm of sample and the EQI probably has the best norm of sample of any emotional test in the world. A new instrument matches, a newest version matches the US Census pretty closely and has over 7,000 people in the database. So, we look at how the average person responds, how people on the ends of the normal of base, the high and the low respond. So if you try and fake it, there is a good chance that we can pick that up by comparison of your scores to thousands of other peoples, some of them fake and some of them haven't. So, we try and adjust for that kind of thing, but the bottom line here really is that there is no benefit to faking your scores. You are not going to get any you know, either if you do it as part of a job selection you are going to emphasize skills that you may not be really good at and you are not going to win in the long run, because if you fake it and say things like imply that you are really good in interpersonal relations and you get a job in costumer service and you really hate people, you are not going to win by doing that. So, I wouldn't really get to hang up on the fake ability concept of self-report.
Well, good. That's a good point and thanks for bringing that up. Let's talks a little bit about emotions in the workplace and maybe to lead into that I would like to mention that a fine book that's written by Dr. Steven Stein is called the Seven Keys to an Emotionally Intelligent Organization and Dr. Stein, I know you have other books but first let's talk a little bit about you know, what was your attempt here when you wrote this book, The Seven Keys to an Emotionally Intelligent Organization?
Actually, the pre-title is Make Your Workplace Great and then the Seven Keys. So, Make Your Workplace Great, the motivation there came from after my first book which is the EQ Edge, and that was very successful selling book. We learned that there were a number of emotionally intelligent people and sometimes in one organization there will be a number of emotionally intelligent people, but the performance of organization may not have been optimum. So, it crossed my mind that it's great that we have got to the level of having more a greater number of emotional intelligent people in the organization, but there are some organizational factors that are probably really important in this. And that's when I started doing investigation of you know, looking at really successful companies and organizations, what differentiates them from the not so successful organizations. And it boiled down to a number of different factors, everything from things you have expect like leadership and everything down as low as help paying salaries were dealt with, with the numeration. So we outlined a number of factors that turned out to be critically important in differentiating successful from non-successful and a lot of it involved emotional issues, you know. How we deal with emotion in organization between people or among people? How we deal with emotion in terms of the costumers that we deal with? We have the things like anger and organizations where there is a lot of anger and people are upset with the mangers or with their boss, they either tend to leave the organization or they tend to sabotage the organization. So, we created a survey called the Benchmark of Organizational Emotional Intelligence and through that survey in surveying thousands of people in a number of many different organizations, we were able to pin point specific areas of concern for those companies that were hindering them from being successful.
You know, I am wondering if, do you think that you accomplished your goal in presenting this concept in writing this book? Has it raised the level of awareness among organizations and the emotional intelligence issue to any extent that you are aware of?
Not as much as we would have like. The EQ Edge, my first book was an international bestseller and sold hundreds of thousands of copies, but the organizational book was not as biggest seller, not as many people maybe we weren't hitting the right people, but not as many of them were interested in making their organizations successful, more people seem to be interested in making themselves successful, you know in terms of more emotionally intelligent.
Yeah. And what we are talking about individual or emotional intelligence and the workplace, is there any consensus about the most predominant emotion in the workplace today? Are there studies being done would identify well, we are talking about emotion, what kind of emotions are we really talking about here?
That's a good question. I don't know if people have studied this specific emotions across the organizations but we do know that in the last during times of recession as we have had anxiety is probably pretty prevalent, stress when organizations are downsized, when people have more pressure on them to perform, have to cover the duties of the person who used to worked to the next office and now they have got to carry both their jobs. So, predominantly, in the last couple of years we have been seeing a lot of stress and anxiety and some of that has led to depression, so a lot of negative emotions not as many positive emotions as we like to see. Now, for whatever reason a lot of my focus has been more on those organizations where there has been positive emotion, because quite frankly we don't get called in by people with negative emotions. The people who are interested in emotional intelligence happened to be more often organizations that are open to the concept are tend to be more successful types of organizations, more willing to look at these kinds of thing. We worked with the US Air Force a lot, we worked with American Express, we worked with Air Canada Airlines, a lot of organization that are doing great things but that's probably wider open to emotional intelligence. We worked with Coca-Cola in Mexico which is the world's probably most successful Coca-Cola organization, so we have a lot of success stories that we deal with. We don't get called in by the flounder in companies because they tend not to believe very much in the stuff.
Yeah, it's really those organizations that are at a more successful level that recognize that there are things that are important about the environment in which people work or impact their attitudes and their values and their emotional level. So let's talk just a little bit about MHS and Ruben Barron. Are you still actively working with Ruben, is he actively involved in this process or is he pretty much licensed to his concept to MHS?
Yeah, he is pretty much __24:12__ to ask. We haven't been working with him for about six or seven years now. This is of a new development, so it is really being done through the great staff and the really talented scientists and psychologists and people we have at MHS.
We are going to had to take a break here for just a quick commercial and then we will be right back with Dr. Steven Stein, the MHS Organization founder and CEO. We will be right back. (Interlude)
And we are back with Dr. Steven Stein, Founder and CEO of Multiple Health Systems. We are talking about emotional intelligence and emotional intelligence in the workplace. I want to try to move us along just a little bit to talk about the value of the emotional intelligence in the role of entrepreneurship and leadership. I know you have done several studies one of which is emotional intelligence of leaders, a profile of top executives that has quite a bit of factual information, but for our listeners out there Dr. Stein, talk to us a little bit about the work that you have done and others that you are aware of that have to do with you know, what role does emotional intelligence actually play in the activities of a leader?
Sure. I wanted to look at this you know, obviously this is a topic of personal interest to me as I mentioned to you I am an entrepreneur, I started out with my wife. The two of us in our basement started a company and we now have close to 100 employees with a building in Toronto, we have an office in London, England in the UK and our products are being used all over the world, translated into 16 languages and so and so forth. So, as an entrepreneur and developing over the last 28 years as an entrepreneur, you know I have read a lot as you have and many of us have in terms of people saying you know this is what makes a great entrepreneur, that's what makes a great entrepreneur. Unfortunately, first of all a lot of that material was not written by people who were successful entrepreneurs, they are written by authors or people who make their living giving speeches, which is okay but if they are not successful entrepreneurs. So, as someone who is a successful entrepreneur who has won several awards for fastest growing company in Canada, etc, I wanted to look at it from the perspective of not only someone who is an entrepreneur, but someone who is a scientist in the field. One of the things I found reviewing a literature is that there is no studies that really look at bottom line success. People give you all these ideas of what makes a successful leader or entrepreneur and you ask them for the data like, "Where did you get that from I mean did you actually look at the profitability or the success of the company?" And if you start digging a lot of the studies as I had and a lot of the books that were out there, you will find that they don't have any data. You will need your own experience, the experience of somebody they have studied, there is all kinds of wild and woolly ideas of there about what's really important. So, I decided to conduct the study. I do some work with an organization called the Young Presidents Organization. I have also worked with Innovators Alliance, which is another organization and only with successful entrepreneurs allowing us members.
I have worked with the Young Entrepreneurs Association, so I have been involved with a number of young and successful leaders of fast growing companies. So I decide to study where we actually tested the emotional intelligence of successful leaders and some not so successful leaders and look at what the data show. We want to look at how profitable were these leaders and what was their emotional intelligence and was there any relationship -- you know real data -- was there any relationship between the characteristics of these entrepreneurs and their real world success in terms of the profitability of their organizations? So that's what led me into this area.
You know, I know from a personal experience that often times when you talk about emotions in the workplace is the first thing that comes to mind is that people being angry or people being disrupt and what we might call emotional may be crying in the workplace and many people push back on that that and say, "Oh, you know, we don't let emotions impact us," but isn't it true that whether they say they let them impact their performance or not it actually does impact their performance?
Absolutely, both positive and negative and the more we learn about emotions as leaders and as coaches and you know whatever our role is, the more effective we are going to be in our workplace, but also with our personal lives and our social lives that's one of the things we have learned after all the research studies or many of the research studies that we have conducted and other people have conducted in this area. So emotions are important and whether you like it or not or whether know it or not, whether you are oblivious, emotions are happening in your workplace. There are people who are either angry or there are people who are excited in your workplace. Sometimes if you don't pay attention to it or you dampen it, it is not going to have a positive effect and as I mentioned the organizations we tend to work with are successful organizations where they learned to recognize that emotions are there, emotions are important and if we work with them, we can get more productivity and more success in our organization.
You know, Dr. Stein, I would like to share with people that I talked with that what a person values is really quite we go to work. I mean we work to satisfy our values. And personal values are very, very important in the workplace, but it's also emotions are one of the few things that can override strong, strong personal values. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Well, we are a very valued-driven organization and I mean we hope that most people who are have virtuous values in terms of where they are driven there, we know some organizations that the values were not quite so good. In fact they had an opportunity to work with a number of ex-Enron people where the values learned a lot about of inside and I have actually mentioned some of that in my book, I believe it's in EQ Edge. Where the leadership values were not really let's say positive in nature as oppose to other organizations that work where there are positive values and the emotions lead into that. The places with negative values send up vibes of negative emotions and that affects people throughout the organization. We find that when organizations have positive values and they really want to work as well as talk to talk, it has a tremendous impact on employee. People want to work in those kind of organizations. People are more committed to them, they value them, so you really have got to find the right fit in terms of the place that you work where both from a values perspective and an emotional perspective, you feel that you are doing the right thing.
Yeah. I spend a lot of time looking for data that actually supports the impact of emotional intelligence being a positive value, maybe better said, you know, case studies where emotional intelligence levels have been raised or addressed and performance has improved. But one of the things I find is that there doesn't appear to be a great deal of current data. There is some older data, but I've been unable to find a lot of current data. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Sure. We have been doing a lot of studies and you may want to visit our website, www.mhs.com/ei. We just finished a study with the US Air Force on parajumpers where we found some amazing results in terms of identifying successful parajumpers for the Air Force and that's one of a number of different occupational groups we looked at where emotional intelligence played a major role, and I think you can find a paper there on that study. We've also done a number of studies with American Express that you may find on our website looking at the area of costumer service where emotional intelligence had a lot to do with it. I can go on listing all kinds of different areas of study that we found that emotional intelligence made a difference. We did a study with collection agents. I mean who would have thought that that would be important, emotional intelligence, in that area, but as you'll see if you pursue that study, we found that we could differentiate collection agents who scored 130% of their quota versus those who only managed to collect 80% of their quota, emotional intelligence encountered for a significant amount of a variance in that. So we're doing many studies. We do something called star performer analysis for companies all over the world where we look at a particular occupational group. In the Air Force, we've done recruiters, parajumpers, but in corporate environments, we have done sales, representatives and pharmaceutical companies, we've worked in financial institutions such as large banks, and we've targeted specific groups, whether it's costumer service, sales, managers, leaders, with American Express in that regard, and we profiled the successful people's EQI, their emotional intelligence quotient factors on the 15 factors. And then we look at people who have average success or not successful in their job and we come up with a sophisticated formula, regression formula, in which we've been able to successfully differentiate who fits better into those positions, who are the star performers based on their EQI profiles. And let's say we've done this work for companies all over the world and it's just been amazing in terms of the pay-off for those organizations.
Dr. Stein, do you think it would be possible to use the EQI or another emotional intelligence assessment tool as a selection tool to determine whether or not a person is more likely or less likely to be successful in an entrepreneurial role for instance?
I think it would be very possible to use it that way as one of the factors, absolutely not the only factor because as an entrepreneur there is a number of things we have to have going for us, you know, that go even beyond emotional intelligence. We have to have a sense of vision, we have to pick the right products or whatever it is that we're trying to do. There is a number of skills, but the study that I was telling you about earlier, that was the goal, was to really identify those factors and perhaps people who are up and coming entrepreneurs or as part of a succession planning process. We have identified -- we've narrowed it down to like four factors that really differentiated the high-performing entrepreneurs from the not-so-high-performing entrepreneurs. And that's in terms of bottom line profitability. You might be interested in hearing what those factors are.
I would certainly be interested in that. What I was wondering if maybe you'd be willing to share what those factors are, if you can recall them?
Absolutely. Sure. Well, the first one came as a bit of a surprise, but the first factor that we found differentiated these successful entrepreneurs was empathy. In other words, they were really good at listening to people around them and not just listening to them, but understanding what made them tick, what motivated them, how they were feeling, what got them excited. That seems to be a critical factor for leaders to get by in, you know, to get people on side, to get people excited about things. So empathy was the number one factor that we found in terms of that aspect of emotional intelligence. The number two factor that we found was something we call self-regard and that has to do somewhat with confidence, how confident the leader is. But it also has to do with the ability to be aware of your strength and weaknesses. If an entrepreneur thinks they are too great, too smart, too good, that can sometimes be the kiss of death. They try and do everything. I have an example in the EQ Edge, citing some people who knew Bill Gates for example, talked about him early on that he always surrounded himself with the smartest people he could find when it came to marketing, when it came to financials, when it came to technical issues, he had brilliant people around him because he knew his strengths and weaknesses pretty well. And Michael Dell attacks it and has the same history and I quote that in my book in the EQ Edge as well. So self-regard, what we call self-regard, was the number two most important factor. The third most important factor we found was something we call reality testing, and that's really the ability to see the writing on the wall, to see what's there. Sometimes, people entrepreneurs live in a fantasy world, you know. They chase dreams and dreams are okay, dreams aren't always bad, but you got to know when the dream gets beyond the pale of reality.
And the really successful CEOs are able to see the dream and turn the dream into reality as opposed to get lost in a dream that will never become real. So reality testing seemed to be the next -- the third most important factor that differentiated the successful entrepreneurs. And the fourth, the other major one, was what we call problem solving. But it is not problems solving in the way you may think it is, what it really has to do with is using emotion effectively to solve problems and make decisions. And we're doing a lot of research on that right now. With some people, you know, their impulses get in the away. They make decisions too quickly without thinking through enough of the facts or some people take too long, they procrastinate and don't make decisions, and you know there's emotion behind this always. I don't care how rationale you think a decision is. I guarantee you we have brains studies that actually show that the emotional parts of the brain are involved, they actually light up when you're making so-called rationale decisions. So the ability to use emotion well in problem solving or decision making is the next most important skill. If you're making decisions because you are afraid of the competition or you're making decisions because 'I got to do it quickly or too quickly, I don't need all the facts, don't get in my way with the facts, just let me move forward,' you're looking for trouble. So those are the sort of secrets to success which aren't so secret because we've published this is the Peer-Reviewed Scientific Journal, but hopefully, that's information your listeners can use.
Oh, absolutely. And I do thank you for revealing that. But along these lines, I'd like to just continue thinking along these lines for just a moment or two and that one of the things that I was thinking while you were talking is that certainly, if there is any great need and yet still a stumbling block for most entrepreneurs is this whole idea of optimism. And to be an entrepreneur to begin with, you have to be optimistic.
Entrepreneurs have a tendency on the whole to be overly optimistic and that can be one of the greatest stumbling blocks to success. Have you found that to be correct or...?
Yeah, absolutely. The factors I just gave you are the differentiators. There's 15 factors in all that we looked at and yes, optimism was one of the things we looked at and optimism was pretty high in all of our entrepreneurs, so it doesn't really differentiate the high performers from the not-so-high performers. We all go into business saying, well, I got -- this is going to be great. I've got this great idea, this great product. We all do that. That doesn't really differentiate. Some people who do that are successful and some aren't. I think that the key here is what I mentioned earlier, the reality testing. The difference is some people will forge ahead and see the reality of the greatness that they're promoting. So at some point, you'll say wow, you know, maybe this product isn't what I thought it was or maybe it could use some improvements or may be I need some better marketing advise or whatever. So if you have the optimism without the reality testing, then you may run into trouble. You have to know how to balance but do it's like, you know. High optimism, that means someone who goes to the lottery all the time, you know, spends all the money on lottery tickets or the casino and they have no reality testing. But if you look at what your odds are, you're going to think twice about how you invest that money, being more realistic. So you got to combine the two. You got to be optimistic yet realistic and that's the art. And you learn how to do that, your chances of being a successful entrepreneur are going to be much, much higher.
Great point. Thanks for bringing that to the surface. Let's talk about the difference between -- from a technical standpoint, from a psychological standpoint or psychiatry standpoint, what is the difference between an emotion and a mood?
Sure. A mood is a more transitory feeling, so I might be in a bad mood right now. Emotion is a more long-standing feeling, you know. I may have -- my emotion I may be happy, in terms of my emotion I may be sad. It's temporarily longer. It stays with you. Emotions are -- we all have a certain number of basic emotions. It doesn't fluctuate as much as our mood does. Our mood tends to fluctuate many times during the course of the day. But you know, moods can build into emotions. So what we want to do, what we often do is we train people to manage the moods. Moods are important, your moods during the day. If you are moody in the morning when you wake up or some people we know that we put -- usually we put them in costumer service. Some people wake up really happy, you know, those people. Sometimes they annoy other people but they wake up really happy. They're in a happy mood right from the get go and they usually make great costumer service people or reader or whatever. But moods cannot go up and down, they can fluctuate, and emotions don't fluctuate as much and they're more basic in terms of our emotions, happy, sad, and angry and so on.
I've heard some people say, Dr. Stein, that the impact of an emotion can linger within an individual for days. That an emotion is a chemical reaction inside the body and the results of that chemical reaction remain or linger for long periods of time, much longer than most of us would anticipate. Would you talk about that a little bit?
It Can. Yeah. You can be affected both psychologically and chemically. It can be, you know, hormonally can affect your emotions. But you know, one of the exciting things about this area of emotional intelligence is we're learning more of our ability to manage or modify those emotions. So one of the things that's often done, for example, people are trained in meditation or mindfulness, some of these techniques that you know Buddhist monks have used for many years, some of these techniques seem to be very effective in helping people manage both their moods and their emotions at a better level. And that's what we sometimes teach people to do in the first stage of improving their emotional intelligence. One is awareness and second is really this emotional self-management.
We're talking with Dr. Steven Stein, successful entrepreneur, founder and CEO of Multiple Health Systems in Toronto, Canada. We're going to take a brief commercial break, then we'll going to come right back with Dr. Stein and talk about methods to manage and grow one's emotional intelligence. (Commercial)
And we're back with Dr. Steven Stein, entrepreneur extraordinaire, founder and CEO of Multiple Health Systems in Toronto, Canada. And Dr. Stein, I find that oftentimes, people appreciate being made aware of possible issues, but they get a little aggravated sometimes if you don't also present them with some possible solutions to those issues. So let's talk a little bit about how does one go about changing the level of emotional intelligence?
Okay. Well, first of all, as you accurately pointed out, we have to know where the deficits are and we start out with obviously a good assessment, look at the 15 different areas or the five major areas. So the first is a diagnostic. Where does the problem seem to be happening? Is it in your interpersonal relationships? Is it in the way you make decisions? Is it the way you manage stress? Is it the way you express yourself, yourself expression of emotions? So once we've got that, there are a number of interventions that we could look at within each of those different categories. We won't have time to go into all of them, but for example, if you are having problems with co-workers, you're not getting along very well, is an issue of not being assertive enough, not knowing how to express your thoughts, feelings and beliefs in a concrete way to the people around you. Are you being too passive? Are you being too aggressive? The great things about emotional intelligence are that these are all skills and each of these skills could be taught. You can learn to -- and we always have people practice exercises, so we'll narrow down into one of these areas, one of these situations and we'll go through a scenario and we'll have them go and actually practice some new behavior in that situation, a new way or a different way of dealing with that boss who you really can't stand or dealing with that employee who isn't getting the work done for you. We'll try different approaches and again using things like empathy, teaching you to be more aware of where they're coming from, being more aware of what their buttons are, how to motivate them, and then approaching them in a different way, giving a new tact, a new reason for why they should do the work that you want them to do. So, there are so many interventions. That's why we wrote the EQ Edge. It's really filled with interventions with for each of the 15 skills that you can do pretty quickly, some of them. Some of them take a while to learn the skills, but you could start doing these things pretty quickly.
Yeah. I have to apologize, Dr. Stein. I have read the EQ Edge but it has been more than a year ago and I didn't review it before our discussion here, but the more you talk about it, the more I do recall. And it is an exciting tool and it was one of the tools that accelerated my interest in the subject a couple of years ago. So I want to encourage our listeners out there who have not read the book, the EQ Edge by Dr. Steven Stein, and I am certain that you could just go to Amazon.com and probably plug in Steven Stein with a V -- S T E V E N S T E I N -- and come up with all of the books that he has authored recently. Are there others, Dr. Stein?
Yeah, there are. __51:51__. The EQ Edge was just for the last two weeks revised, so make sure you get the third edition. Even on Amazon, it's hard to tell the older one from the third edition because we have some of the newer stories and the new research that's been done over the last number of years in this exciting third edition. I also wrote the Emotional Intelligence For Dummies book. You're probably familiar with that dummies guide. Now, that's probably not for you or your listeners, but that's probably -- it's usually a good gift for that special person in your life who just doesn't get it. So the dummies book is a great way to introduce somebody who thinks this is all a bunch of junk. Give him the dummies book. It's a fun way to learn about emotional intelligence and Make Your Workplace Great is the other that I've written. And there is a couple more to come that are in the work, so they can't stop me from writing. They keep pushing more books at me to get out. Another one will be the EQ Edge for Students that will be out in the following year. We've had such a huge response to the EQ Edge they have asked us for a higher education version because we found that emotional intelligence is one of the critical aspects of college students staying in school versus dropping out. It's not school grades, it's not some of the things people have been looking at for a long time. It's these emotional intelligence skills. So, we'll have new book out and a series of exercises and workbooks geared at college and high school students.
On a scale of 1 to 10, what level of awareness does a workplace have with regard to emotional intelligence and its impact on performance?
Wow! That's an interesting question. Well, probably the average workplace in the country is probably pretty low, maybe a 2 or a 3. But you know, unfortunately, I don't get to see that many of the average workplaces anymore. I only get to see the ones that are high performing. So the organizations where I walk in and deal with people, they are at about 7 or 8. These are high-performing organizations. So they're aware constantly of the emotions of their people and if anything goes wrong, they address it quickly. If people are angry or don't feel they have been treated fairly or whatever it is, the kinds of places that I am used to dealing with know how to address those issues as quickly as possible. They don't let things fester or get worse. They deal with these emotions as soon as they can.
Dr. Stein, we're moving close to the end of the show, but before we have to end, I want to take advantage of this time to thank you for coming on the show and I want to ask you to share with our listening audience the answer to one final question. As a very successful entrepreneur yourself and as a professional, clinically professional individual dealing with emotional intelligence and its impact on entrepreneurship, what's one single piece of advice that you could give our listening audience that would have the greatest impact?
I think the one piece of advice I'd give your listener, your entrepreneur listeners, is to listen. Listen to the people around you and listen more than just with your ears, listen with your gut as well as your ears. Hear them out. What are they trying to tell you? It doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they say, but just try and understand where they're coming from. I think that's one of the most important things right now you could do as a leader and not only that, you'd be amazed at how quickly that gets noticed by the people around you. And by listening, what you do generally is just feed something -- is this what you mean when you say that or like trying to understand what someone's really trying to tell you or get at and showing them that you really care what they're trying to say to you or the messages that they're giving you. If you can master that one skill, that could go a long way in helping you become more successful.
How very steep that is. Certainly, if colleges offered listening one-o-one, it would be a course that most all of us would need to take. We've been talking with Dr. Steven Stein, founder and CEO of Multiple Health Systems in Toronto, Canada. And before we close, I want to give you an update on our May line up of stars for Entrepreneurs R Us. This coming week, Renn Zaphiropoulos, retired vice president of Xerox, is coming to share his philosophy on entrepreneurialism. On May the 24th, we have Martin Soorjoo, Venture Capital Specialist, is coming to share with us how to pitch your deal to investors. And then finally, on May 31st, we have a wonderful friend and very competent business process consultant, Kraig Kramer is coming on the show to share some of his tools with us on how to run an exceptionally successful business. Kraig Kramer is the past CEO of Snapper Lawnmowers. And with that, we're going to have to close up the show.
Wow! How time flies when you're having fun. This brings us to an end of another episode of Entrepreneurs R Us. Thank you for listening in. Don't forget to join us next week, same time, same place. Until then, this is Steven J. Blakesley in Entrepreneurs R Us saying, "See you on the radio!"
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