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Our first guest is Jim Christopher, founder of SOS (Secular Organizations For Sobriety, also known as Save Our Selves), a non religious abstinence based alternative to AA. He is also the author of How to Stay Sober: Recovery Without Religion and other books.
Our second guest is Andrew Tatarsky, author of Harm Reduction Psychotherapy: A New Treatment for Drug and Alcohol Problems.
It's good to talk.