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Building a Revenue Marketing Team - Xactly

  • Broadcast in Marketing
Debbie Qaqish

Debbie Qaqish


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Debbie Qaqish, Chief Revenue Marketing Officer of the Pedowitz Group and Chris Newton, VP of Xactly Corporation talk about Building a Revenue Marketing Team


0:00 Debbie Qaqish

Hello, hello everybody this is Debbie Qaqish of The Pedowitz Group and welcome to the November episode of Revenue Marketer Radio. I am so excited we have an outstanding speaker with us today that's Chris Newton VP of Marketing at Xactly. And today's topic is one that the executive who is thinking in the 2013 should be considering and that is "How do you build a high-performing revenue marketing team"? So before we get into our chat with Chris let me just say a little bit about the show. We've been running the show going on three years now. And it's all designed really to talk to real revenue marketers and learn tips and tricks on how they made that transition from traditional marketing to revenue marketing and more importantly for an executive how you are transforming marketing from a call center to a revenue center and what's more before we give in to the show, I would like to take a moment to define the term revenue marketing. I will tell you though; since we started the show the term revenue marketer and revenue marketing seems to be all over the place. I'm finding people with titles in revenue marketing and it's a very, very nice to see but our definition for revenue marketer is, that specific type of marketer just like you might have a chronic marketer who has some revenue or revenue-related accountability, do the kinds of campaigns, communications and digital interactions they set up. Revenue marketers are responsible for the top of the sales panel and interacting with and nurturing leads until their sales ready. And all revenue marketers used some type of marketing automation platform integrated with CRM to power their revenue marketing practice and to get those real revenue results. So, with that let's get in to our interview and again, Chris Newton is the VP of Marketing for Xactly and Chris is also a serial entrepreneur. So when I was thinking about the topic of building a revenue marketing team, I couldn't think of anybody better than Chris. So Chris welcome to the show.

2:26 Chris Newton

So glad to be here today Debbie.

2:30 Debbie Qaqish

So tell us Chris a little bit about your background and kind of what you do for Xactly?

2:35 Chris Newton

Sure, I've been at Xactly for about a year and a half now responsible for the marketing organization here and we're coursed on the hook from the CEO and leadership team to pass constant flow of leads on to the sales organization for triage and follow up and turn those into opportunities and business for the organization. I've been a member of other companies, as you mentioned the marketing automation software is a big part of this. This is the third company I've been out where I have been using Marketo but you know prior to that life as a user, I spent seven years at Siebel where I was responsible for their marketing automation product line and with a number of different elements, their loyalty programs, management and with airline customers we had a marketing resource management solution as well as some of the basic marketing automation software as was available back 10 years ago. It's amazing how much things have progressed since that time in terms of the type of data that is available to it, type of tracking and what you can do with the emails and landing pages and measurement today that was just simply not available when I was initially starting out, putting together some of those initial marketing automation capabilities for the Siebel platform.

3:55 Debbie Qaqish

So Chris, you're absolutely right, I mean, would technology allows s to do today? You know without the technology, it's really kind of even have a definition of a revenue marketer because there's really no way to close that loop on the impact that marketing is making on revenue and specifically how we create those leads so I completely agree. Huge change especially giving your background of seven years at Siebel and again your third company with using marketing automation. Again, that to me is what makes you a serial revenue marketer. Not a lot of people out there can say that. But I want to talk about Xactly and I know that you've been there for about a year and a half now, so when Xactly hired you, where they looking for VP of Marketing that had revenue marketing experience, was that a base card of what they were looking for?

4:43 Chris Newton

Well the conversation that we had at the time that I started was that they have a pretty small marketing team. They didn't actually have a head of marketing at that time. They'd sort of chosen to pull back and be a little bit cautious through the down turn but this is was really kind of taking up. The sales team was doing amazing job, getting a lot business done but the marketing team that was in place had been scaled back to the point that they can really only focus on a few things. They were very good at public relations and winning awards and giving some media coverage. They ran some fantastic events, had a super presence set Dreamforce events and many other trade shows around. They were organizing the first user conference and things like that. But the pieces that we're really missing at that time I felt were that steady flow of leads coming from the organization regardless if whether Dreamforce was last week or we're sending leads to sales. So putting together programs and thinking about things in that way also highlighted the facts that there was a real lack of content generation. The website that was in place was beautiful, modern website, lots of great information about our company, Xactly's customers, Xactly's solutions, Xactly's awards, Xactly's partners but for the visitors of the site that wasn't yet looking to learn about Xactly in particular, we did not have a lot of best practice taught, leadership tips and tricks, type information where they can learn about our space, sales compensation, incentives, rewards, motivations, how to take those capabilities and align your team to do what you need them to do. We believed Xactly really sits in that intersection between what a company's objectives are and the power of incentives and motivation to align a work force to drive behaviors that are going to help the company achieve those objectives. And talking about how that works at a high level is a natural place to start with folks before you dive into the solutions and the products and get around how everything works. So building that steady flow of leads to the sales team was going to require some new programs and processes that were going to be fueled by a new set of content and so I really saw those two main areas as the big challenge and that's what I pitched to the management team who ultimately hired me and brought me on board.

7:21 Debbie Qaqish

So that is so interesting, again we have a lot of listeners who are just beginning this revenue marketing journey. So how interesting it was that you had actually come in and help educate the senior management team at Xactly into what marketing could actually be and the value that they could provide. And obviously you're very successful on that because they hired you.

7:43 Chris Newton

Well I guess so. I think that they shared the vision, there was a lot more that we could do. We see such a great market potential for this. There are so many companies that have sales people, right? This is cross vertical. This is a cross company size. If you look at the amount of money that's spent in the US each year on sales compensation, it's $ 800,000,000.00 which is larger than the largest social programs that the Federal government is funding. It is larger than the amount spent on advertising many times over. And it's a tremendous amount of leverage in power to drive those organizations to do the things you need to do. So we need to get and at the same time that amount of spending is largely managed in spreadsheets today. So we need to educate the world that there's a better way to do this. Just today you would never think of running your marketing campaigns through Excel. You'd never think of running your CRM system though Excel, so why are people content to run their sales compensation and incentives programs that way. It's just far to front the error. It introduces you latency in the payments, and there is also problems with the whole motivation element itself. The person that you are trying to induce to perform and behave a certain way can't have the visibility into that spreadsheet. They would drive this behavior. So that's the message that we want to get out there and talk about. So we begin building, nurturing programs and nurturing campaigns, and the...

9:21 Debbie Qaqish

Chris, Chris.

9:22 Chris Newton


9:23 Debbie Qaqish

Wait, hold on, just before you get there because I just want to make sure that people can follow along with the story. So, what you're saying is that there was a clear vision. There was an incredible opportunity for Xactly in the market and so you come in to the company. You've got a small sales team so kind of take it up from there. How did you, for example, how did you come in because this is your third rodeo, right, with marketing automation and you know the impact they can have. So when you came in to Xactly as the new VP of Marketing, and you knew what have to have happened? How did you first come in and assess and what would you just maintain?

10:07 Chris Newton

So the first thing to do is to figure out what sort of programs they had in place. Well, we had many of the solutions, the actual software solutions there, the way they were being used up to kind of best practices and what we ultimately wanted to do. And it was pretty clear that part of the reason was we just didn't have the personality, the focus on the team to be able to do that. So at that time there were, they were basically Director of Marketing, and then a Creative Manager who is working on the website, and we have a third person who is helping with just about everything that was going on, event's management and running the marketing automation solution and everything else. So really the first thing I did was to curve out that individual and sort of protect her time so that she became the power user for the marketing automation solution and the driver behind the analytics that we were going to generate. And while she was amazing at helping us run successful events and so many other things, we just couldn't afford to have her spending her time in that way. So that was really the first thing that I did. And then in order to back up the sales some of those other things, we went out and found some contractor help initially to help us run trade shows and events, because this obviously had to happen but I saw the skills in this person who I wanted to run the marketing automation system that are not always available sort of logic and analytics come naturally to this person and the great attention to detail is required to set up these things and make the different programs work together. One of the challenges is, it's so easy today with the modern software to set up a marketing campaign even a multistage campaign or a triggered campaign or full flow nurturing campaign with multiple tracks and automated followup that the challenge is not that individual campaign. The challenge is staying on top of the details and understanding the interactions between the campaign. So that's why you need to find on your team someone who is sort of has that analytical tendency as well as that attention to detail and the ability to kind of dive in and roll off their sleeves and figure this out. And that's also why they need sort of sufficient amount of time to think about this. This is not something unfortunately that you can do with just a little bit of attention. You are going to require some focus in this area to keep this things right.

12:55 Debbie Qaqish

Yeah. I absolutely agree and you know it's so interesting that this is where the very first areas that you focused on to make sure that you had a help from day one. And it's because you've been down that road before. Quite often Chris when I walk into a client, he's almost like the last person that they hire. And I agree with you that I think that's a mistake because at the end of the day the whole purpose of revenue marketing is to produce measurable impact on revenue and if you can't have someone in that analytical wall, taking a look at these details and to your point thinking about how all these things work together and given the time to think about it, I just completely agree, a critical wall very, very early out of the box. So you had somebody on board who could take over that responsibility sounds like.

13:45 Chris Newton

Yeah, I was very fortunate to walk to a situation where we did have somebody here who sort of have the raw materials and what we needed for that. I was able to get her a little bit extra training, connect her with some other folks in a marketing automation community to talk to, learn new things and she sort of now at the stage where when have, we often will host so we can rally, use her group, type meetings from the marketing automation solution and she can certainly teach these classes and sometimes doesn't have patience to sit through because there are some basic topics and we are really finding a need to kind of break out and have groups for beginners because absolutely you got to learn, start somewhere and get moving up the power curve but then break out into the folks that are trying to do some more advanced level and sophisticated things which can get pretty complex on the analytic side and really to break apart, understand and who we can try them if you've got to -- you got to keep pushing things and so you know she has been a great find for us internally and it's been really -- I pat myself on the back for selecting her to run that stuff, but those are the attributes we are looking for someone that has that analytic mindset and the attention to detail and the willingness to kind a dive in and stand on top of it.

15:05 Debbie Qaqish

That's what I was going to ask you now. If you didn't have that role in place today and you were going to go, put together a job spec, you know the attributes that she would be looking for. You mentioned a couple, analytical, attention to detail. What else would you add to that job specs?

15:25 Chris Newton

You know, this is what -- you need a little bit of a business mind. You need someone who can think about, why these things matter and make this trade awesome because -- whether you're in the weeds looking at your scores, your scoring roles and you're going determine based upon behavior on the website or somebody's fit in terms of their profile. You know just working through the new ones on detail of that then trying to decide which of those scoring roles are working and which may be or not or the conflicting multiple campaigns that might be going out. You've got this great nurturing track, but we're also wanting to promote this webinar that's coming up. How do I do that without stopping on each others messaging and you know figuring out how you're going vary -- you know the senders that these are coming from -- may the nurturing comes from the sales team as we do or in the webinar or more of that, the stuff comes from the marketing team, so they're receiving things from different people or if you're adding in sort of automated delays in their nurturing track if other either emails have gone out in certain periods of time, but just hold off on that nurturing email for another week or some period of time, so we don't overload folks. Working through these new onsets of -- all of the little details on your marketing program is something this person is going have to do. So those are the type of skills I look for and I don't know if this is a coincidence but I happened to hire that you know the two best I've hired came Berkley one of our local universities, you know just up road, we're here in Silicone Valley. So, finding a particularly -- you know strong academic institution nearby is where you might find folks like this is not a bad thing as well.

17:09 Debbie Qaqish

Also, you hired kids went out to college or were they MBA?

17:16 Chris Newton

They weren't directly out but they were sort of recent graduates from undergrad program there and but they're -- sharp and you know had the right skills and eager to learn and I was able to talk to both of them about you know the value of getting these skills early in their career and as they understand this better than it appears in other areas of marketing. I truly believe this is kind of curve track within marketing than it's going be you know very useful and helped them proceed as they move along.

17:51 Debbie Qaqish

I could not agree more, I mean my gosh, this whole revenue marketing thing, the thing that you do day in and day out that Xactly -- they don't teach in an undergraduate school, they don't teach in MBA programs and it's just a criminal almost. Just one other quick question about these recent graduates because you know people are always interested -- where do you find great talents? Did they have a particular undergraduate degree or did it seem to matter?

18:18 Chris Newton

I don't recall the specific degree.

18:20 Debbie Qaqish


18:21 Chris Newton

But it was more around the skills and the talent I saw in the individual and the degree might have actually led me - help me believe that, that was the person to do this and try this out, but that all sort of worked out.

18:38 Debbie Qaqish

Okay that's awesome. So you have somebody, they became a Marketo power users. You have this person who was great in analytic, so we understand you know the role of analytic and the kind of the skills. What are the kinds of talent do you have on your team?

18:54 Chris Newton

Well, clearly the next big gaping hole we had to sew as the content development, I mean you can put together an amazing nurturing campaign but if you don't have anything good to send or anything good to -- it's going - content it's going to engage people and entice them to respond, that's the biggest challenge you have. So, we look to find a marketing content manager. I had a day to call her just a writer but it's so much more than that there's - it's social media content sometimes it's writing just an email for the nurturing, sometimes it's developing the pay load for that email that guide or whatever it is that we want to send out. Everybody wants to call in white papers I saw the cringe of that term and I don't even want to really read the white paper anymore, but I would like to learn about you know best practices or success tips or success kit or something along those lines. So, we're trying to package up things in that way and make that information consumable for folks, so that they will engage and we can kind a move them along that flow. So, that was really the next critical role and for that, we did hire from the outside. I ended up bringing in somebody who had previous experience in journalism and she'd never work with a tech company before and was a just a very -- someone who -- I would be terrified if my job was to write the blog everyday I am not a prolific writer but some people are like that I just don't have that gene in my make up and she clearly did -- that was exciting there, they have publication deadlines and build things out and gets stuff done. There is always a new way to tell the story to engage in new audience or come out with a new customer angle or another role that perhaps were dealing and working with and -- she was a great fit for the team and came in was able to help us begin to generate the materials and when you're talking about watching it a nurturing program, it's really fairly daunting in terms of the amount of the materials you going to require. All you do is a relatively simple program, I think if there is a lot more that we want to do to it, that's the other point. This is never -- I would consider ourselves done by any means. We have this stuff up and running but I am not ever happy with the -- the success that we have. I think we can have better material and more targeted material and we're going to look at -- enhancing what we have and the content finding new and better ways to do things, but to get it up and running initially we went after a six-track nurturing program that was split along kind of a two main axis. We mostly talk with either sales people and sales management, sales offs around motivating the sales team or we talk with finance people, people that are around the hook for calculating and paying these incentives out and depending upon which of those roles we're talking to the other messages are going to vary considerably. So, that's why it's so important for us to break that out if we're talking to sale team, we're talking about motivation and incentives and achievement and rewards and if we're talking the finance team, we're talking about elimination of errors, building credibility with sales, timeliness of payments, saving time and resources on your team. We talked about -- putting the analyst back in the business analyst role because they now have time to do that instead of just wrestle with the -- spreadsheets that are air prone and making sure that they don't -- the worst things they want is to go to some sales guy -- three weeks or a month later and tell him "hey we paid you too much, we need some of that money back" or to have that conversation with the CEO about the ramifications of doing it if it is on a broader scale then one or two folks. So, they spent a ton of time in the sheets making sure everything is right and there is kind of way of how the way to do it and that's where we are all about, helping those people to see that.

22:58 Debbie Qaqish

Of course when you think about the role of - you've got a person as dedicated to being a power user in analytic. You've got a person that's dedicated to the content. Who is the person who can do the kinds of campaigns that you need to create?

23:13 Chris Newton

Well, so this is an interesting point, in this year -- in the first year that I have been here we've really built up this team and I think it's sort of a marketing services organization that has the capacity to develop the content, build the campaigns, execute the campaigns, run the trade shows, work with the PR team and so fourth. But we didn't have that head of the organization that was thinking about okay, so from my market, what is that the target? So we exactly go after customers across the spectrum. So, we've got many companies that have a thousand or more sales reps, big organizations and we've got many that have less than a hundred. So, the needs and the constraints and how to reach people and who actually is buying center is totally different. So, we've hired what I'm calling product marketing managers but they're -- it's very heavy on the marketing, is to go to market strategies, is thinking all day long, let's say I'm the guy responsible for that SMB side of things. Who is the buying center -- why are they buying our product? What messages are going to resonate with them? How will I find more people like them? What are the best campaigns and topics that I can use to engage more folks like that? At that scale of an organization, I don't have someone type of compensation administrator. On the enterprise side, however, those compensation administrators are some of the most important people for us to reach. So, because that -- go to market side of it, it's fundamentally different, we need that individual to help us think very clearly about the tactics that we're going to use in that space. Industry analyst and some of the larger trade shows are great on the enterprise side. Not so helpful for the SMBs, those people don't have the budgets to pay for the analyst reports from Gartner and others and they don't have the time or budget or travel capacity to attend some of the larger trade shows. You got to figure out "okay how are we going to manage" and change or go to market tactic to fit that market place and that's what this person is really all about. They're thinking about that specific target market 100% at the time and then working with marketing services side of the team to actually execute the tactics and campaigns in that market?

25:46 Debbie Qaqish

Well, interesting so, we are going to make a shortcut this, so we've got product marketing managers...

25:49 Chris Newton


25:51 Debbie Qaqish

And do they report to you or do they report to someone else in that organization?

25:57 Chris Newton

It's sort of a dotted line thing; we've created for the SMB side of things. It is actually in 2005 was founded and we want after mid market and then we've moved out and in to enterprise based with our flagship product called Xactly Incent. A couple of years ago, we launched an entirely new product built on the sales force.com platform that was met to do many of the same things but we give for that SMB audience. It has to be much easier and quicker and cheaper to install and manage and run on an ongoing basis and have all the pre-built integration with sales force and now we offer with Quick Books and other things that are appropriate for that marketplace and it doesn't need to have some of the more complex attributes in the larger product. The whole separate environment that you might use to plan and so fourth. So, that group is a startup within a startup that individual reports over there but I meet with him weekly and he meets with my team and attends all of our meeting and everything else.

27:01 Debbie Qaqish

Okay. So this so interesting to me because a lot times in the organizations, critically we take a look at the role of product marketing managers. It seems to be very divorced from revenue marketing but it sounds like at Xactly you kind of made them program manager so that they understand the market, they've got a vision for it and all the typical things that product marketing should do. That you guys have a closer relationship between the two parts of the companies so it comes out to be one great result.

27:34 Chris Newton

Yeah, that's one of the reasons that are little hard to describe this role because as soon I say product marketer people think they know what that is and sure this person in responsible for thinking about data sheets and some of those other things but that's not really what I see them as doing. I see them as being my partners, we evaluate how are PPC campaigns performing in their market and does that make sense for their market and should we do more of that or should we do less of that and how do the events and trade shows, all of these along that it's a business planning and business strategy and directing the resources we have in the right place is the primary objective of that individual.

28:16 Debbie Qaqish

That is so interesting, so when you guys hired these product marketing managers and brought them aboard do they kind of get that and you guys kind of what you hire them for? Were they more classical on the product - marketing side or?

28:29 Chris Newton

No, I think they absolutely get that and we're right now going through a planning cycle for next year's budget and it's a -- we have couple of meetings this afternoon and it's me and one of these individuals sit down and we're going through all the assumption. We sort of did a top down budget. We are starting with -- okay well these are the -- let's say these are the revenue targets we want to hit. How are we going to get there? How much sales qualified pipeline do we need to get there assuming that sort of kind of a complicated model involved but assuming you've got some backlog of that and you've got a create some new each period and you're going to close different rates of the backlog and the new. How much of this pipeline do we need? How many marketing qualified leads? Do we need to sell under the pipeline and we actually look at not just the marketing qualified leads, but we have two other categories we called them sales qualified leads which are sort of the outbound prospecting things that just a different process, they are not coming through the marketing campaigns and then we also have the partner source leads and both of those are really critical to our overall business success and thinking about the mixed of these resources and how they are coming in and what part of that marketing needs a support and therefore backing into which programs we're going to have to run and if we have a general sense of what our cost per lead is, our cost for MQL for those types of programs? Now I got a sense of what my budget needs to look like for next year if we're going to hit the revenue targets if the company ultimately wants it. So it changes the scope of the conversation with the CFOs work in that planning process and this person and in his role is directly involved in that planning process.

30:21 Debbie Qaqish

I love this model. Oh my gosh! This is so great! I also really like Chris that you've got MQL that is for marketing, SQL sales generated and PQL from partners and it's such a great way to take a look at how everything is coming together and of course the new model from serious vision and shows them great things there, but I really do really, really like the way you guys had the time, product marketing within your organization. It is just makes so much of that. Again, a little bit more challenging in large companies, well they have more of their traditional product marketing, product marketing management focus but this is a model and I can see why and how that is working so well for you guys. So we talked about power users, we talked about the analytics, we talked about contents and we talked about kind of like the person who has have it in visions and this is what I need in order for us to be successful beyond this product. What other roles do you have on your team?

31:24 Chris Newton

There are couple other roles that are very pretty well understood and probably do not require much description but they are very important. I mentioned briefly we have someone who focused on events management that is our participation in trade shows. It is our development of our own seminars and road shows. It's management of our webinars and it's management of our large user conference so that is a critical role for us because all of those things are elements of what move things along. Even our user conference which is targeted largely at existing customers has tremendous impact as we are able to invite prospects and as well find the lot of add on and upsell business with the existing customer base so that is a critical role for us. We also have a couple of folks because it is such a big area that are responsible for the website design, graphic design in general even handouts for bag and search for a trade shows or advertising that is using banners ads or optimizing our landing page, graphical appearance for the PPC and other campaigns that we might run. There is just a ton of that graphic design and website-type work so that is another group. And then the third area we have talked about was there is someone on a team who is a -- she is responsible for getting meetings and this is distinct from the function in our company where we have the ADR or sales development rep, account development reps that are really the lead triage group so is marketing has an MQL that is the group that it goes to for them to decide is this thing worth handing off and engaging a sales rep. We would like to have a relatively low bar to get people to that group from marketing, but then they are ones that need to dig in.

33:20 Chris Newton

And figure out is it worth handing off to sales and involving that person because their time is really critical of course so that is a critical function in the organization. In our case, does not report to marketing. We have talked about doing that, we kind of going back and forth but just geographically most of that ADR SDR team and the manager for that team is in our remote sales office in Denver and it has worked out quite well to have it managed that way so it has not put them there, but the role that is on my team is this person who is responsible for getting meetings and where she fits in. She does not get any of the inbound MQLs but if I am running a seminar or another event and I need to have attendees, she will help us work the phones and the prospects and just augment what that ADR team is doing in terms of inviting people, link them and getting them there. The other thing that she does is she picks up the difficult accounts of the ADRs each work with their individual sales reps and the sales reps on the enterprise side all have territories that they own and within those territories they have each got 12 or 15 accounts so they would love to get into but they just have been able to over the years and the nurturing campaign as great as they are they are not doing it and the ADRs have tried and they are not getting it done so what is this target list 12 to 15 per rep and what can we do to get in there so this person on my team is maybe the best I've ever seen, but she works -- we do not measure on how many phone calls she gets, it is all about how many meeting she gets so she works the web and LinkedIn and all the other resources available to her. She somehow works her way around like gatekeepers in these organizations and gets meeting at specific companies with specific titles for that sales team and we find that an effective way for the very targeted high-end accounts but just augment what we are doing with the more automated campaigns.

35:20 Chris Newton

And so it is a specific tactical investment decision to have a person like that for that sort of activity which is clearly higher cost than the more automated things that we do but it is an important part of our overall strategy.

35:37 Debbie Qaqish

I think that is awesome. I think that so many marketing teams are remiss either in how they used an SDR or an ADR or a telecall team and they certainly are remiss in having a role like just getting meetings. I think that is absolutely fabulous and I think it is great that you have that on the team. I want to go back to the ADR and you had mentioned Chris that you guys kind a set a low bar from an MQL status to pass that lead over to the -- it think it is being passed to the ADR, the SDR and that is --

36:13 Chris Newton

That is right.

36:14 Debbie Qaqish

And then that will -- at least within sales, so tell me about how your team interacts with that role?

36:20 Chris Newton

So this has been one of the areas that we are continuing to evolve so as marketing has been getting more mature in what we are doing and the quality of the leads that we are passing we believe is getting better, getting sales to trust us and the users and follow up on the ones we sent is clearly important so we have in a recently got it in the last few months have a new manager for this group and that is really been a big help because that person is now the manager that ADR team is on the phone and I've mentioned she is in the Denver office instead of San Jose but she is on the phone and many times a day with the power user of our Marketo in the marketing automation solution because we are making sure that the leads that we are importing are coming with the right quality as we do a data pin from some other sources not working for her team are the scoring roles that we have working for them that they want to modify or tweak and recently we made some changes to titles that to help them get better folks and it is just an ongoing conversation for those two people, I can't even list that the number of things that they are have to talk about and so the tight linkage between that organization even though it does not exist within marketing it is outside of marketing the tight coordination is really the key for success there. Well one reason we have a relatively low bar is if our all the volume of leads was so high that we only could cheer if they can talk to the very best ones we would do that but this is an inexact science, I can't just tell from my automated systems which really are the best and having him in contact to validate that and see what is really there is really valuable and the cost of missing somebody because we did not follow up or we just sort come to our website download some stuff and maybe attend the webinar and then kind a veer up and do whatever they are doing.

38:20 Chris Newton

If we do not reach out to that person and sort to see what is going on and trying to get connect and engage, that is a shame on us so that is why I want to have a relatively low bar for those folks. Let us have them follow up on people that are attending the webinars and see what is there and see if there is something we can do to help and the worst case you learn is probably sort to have a need there is no budget, no urgency but this is maybe something first down the road, perfect. Do not send them to sales but send them right back to our nurturing programs in the right track of the nurturing program and we're going to get that business at some point in the future but it was worthwhile to make that call because let's say they did have an ongoing process we would not have known about it without doing that.

39:05 Debbie Qaqish

That is right and I love that model and I love that even though that function leads in sales but you guys are so tightly integrated with them. That's rare, so kudos to you and your team Chris. So I would like to kind of -- for the end of the interview and you have been so gracious Chris because you are just like a textbook anybody who is looking to build a revenue marketing team, should be like the textbook for them because you have given a so much greater information so I would like to -- if you could for our audience, could you think about the person that should be getting to build these things, what are the top two lessons learned or pieces of advice that you give to a VP in marketing who is coming in to a company and has to build up this team.

39:54 Chris Newton

I think it is just sort of mapped out -- where you are trying to go and do not get too daunted by that and start somewhere and as you identify the other gaps work the fellows in, with us it was the immediate glaring thing that I saw was we have the solutions in house, we are not using them and asking the question why we are not using them it is because nobody is spending enough time with them to use them effectively. I've got a call them out, time for somebody to do this who can do it, here is the individual I did not have to hire outside put them on that. Okay, now we are starting to create the structure of some of these basic initial nurturing campaigns and scoring roles and landing pages and so forth. What do I need next is I need step to fill it and it is just moved, that moved is into the content role that was the path that I followed. I did not have to worry about the creative design because we already have that, other teams are going to find that they have different skills in house or available through contract or I should mention that while I have hired a number of full time employees, we are constantly balancing between do we want to bring someone on in a full time role or there is an amazing world of talent that is available on a contract basis and we work with many different experts in almost all of the areas that I have talked about running our -- the Marketo programs that we ran wouldn't have been possible without some contractors that we have worked with on, on that side and running the content that we developed, I'm sure I have the in-house person but she also has contract writers that she relies upon for some of the blog post and other things that we do. We put out an entire magazine with selling power that required a lot of extra help and when we do a project like that, that needs a surge of activity you can always bring someone in house.

41:54 Chris Newton

So having that contract labor that you can go to. On the graphic designs side, I was fortunate to have some real talented folks here already but we are now having an overcapacity issue there I mean under capacity. We need more stuff done and they have time to do it so that is the place that I am going look to expand soon with relying upon some outside contractor, so think about that mix between the two. The thing I love about the contractors is that it gives you flexibility in your budget, you can decide. You want to spend the money on the people, the contractors or do you want to spend the money on programs and maintaining that option can be helpful at least in an organization with our skill and size once you have sort of brought someone on full time you need to be very confident that they are going to have a full slate of work headed and you are going use them all the time because you've made that investment decision you cannot reallocate those dollars very easily.

42:57 Debbie Qaqish

Again, I think that is all fantastic advice. There was a things that you said Chris is everybody comes in to this situation with 80% of skill so you have just have to take your time to assess but I really like your, what I call list and address the immediate gaps first right? It is called the low-hanging fruit, just what you need to do to kind a get things going and then I really like your thought process for how you move through that you know, where are we now, what are the gaps, what are the structure of the nurture campaigns, you got to get the content in there and then augmenting, where and if you need it with contract so I think that's all great advice. Well, Chris we are at the end of the interview but you have been an amazing guest for us today. Again, it is like a textbook for how to build a revenue marketing team. We appreciate your time so much and so thanks for being on the show with us.

43:53 Chris Newton

I appreciate it. Thank you Debbie

43:56 Debbie Qaqish

Well, thanks everybody and stay tune we've a great new episode of Revenue Marketer Radio coming up in December. Everybody have a great day!