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Show Notes

• Archived Blog Post

  Date / Time: 7/13/2008 7:21 PM UTC

  The Great Debate: Liberals vs. Conservatives at Radio Free Nation Show
  

  Last night on BlogTalkRadio there occurred the first widely anticipated debate between the left and the right. On the liberal side were Martin from Radio Free Nation Radio, Scott from One Black Man Radio, and Mrs. V, from Mrs. V On The Scene Radio. On the conservative side, it was Shane (Evrviglnt) and Frank (Uncle Seth) from Political Vindication Radio and Josh Allem from the JPA Live Show. We debated the War On Terror, Abortion, Education and What We Love About America. The eminently capable Doc Mo from The Dangerzone Show moderated.

  
  

  The War on Terror topic proved a little less than what I had expected. I took the speakers box first and delivered, hastily, my introduction - you can read it at Politicalvindication.com. Scott from One Black Man opposed me, and set off on a rambling message about George Bush, conspiracy, and the American appetite for killing brown people. He was channeling Alex Jones, the man who thinks we've got concentration camps in America. I'll admit that our team predicted that Scott would go conspiratorial, that's his M.O., but I was still disappointed. The debate turned into a Ron Paul/David Patraeus scrap that had One Black Man hurling charges and wallowing about in the fever swamps of Bush Derangement Syndrome. He repeated Seymour Hersh's speculation from his article 'Preparing the Battlefield' that accused America of trying to destabilize Iran by "seizing members of Al Quds, the commando arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and taking them to Iraq for interrogation, and the pursuit of “high-value targets” in the President’s war on terror, who may be captured or killed." Wha...? I thought that's what we're supposed to be doing! Iran has been killing Americans for 30 years, and the prospect that the US tip of the spear has made finally contact with the Middle East's most lethal gang of state sponsored killers has me expecting peace throughout the Middle East real soon. Scotty spent a lot of time playing armchair general - cherry picking assumptions from five years ago that were reasonable to assume when 9/11 was still a fresh reminder of our failure to respect the enemy. To counter him I brought up the Rockefeller report, the Democratic hatchet job that reads like a thriller and ends with utter betrayal - a long list of statements and positions of President Bush and his administration leading up to war found as "substantiated by intelligence community estimates." Marty said I was cherry picking from the report, but my point was that even a one-sided witch hunt couldn't prove a conspiracy that President Bush lied us into Iraq - which was the seminal charge by Scott. The intelligence estimates that the Administration received and forwarded onto Democrats and Republicans read the same for both liberals and conservatives - and the quotes of Democrats upon voting for the Joint Resolution to Authorize Force reveal rare agreement concerning Iraq, it's lethal potential and the need for regime change. Hillary Clinton said of the vote that "any vote that might lead to war... should be hard. But I cast it with conviction." George Bush did not lie us into war, America didn't deserve 9/11, and we are living up to the ideals of our founders - This is about life and liberty and the rejection of tyranny, ideals that once inspired this nation to its own revolution. Listen to the rest of the segment for more of the same.

  
  

  The second issue was on abortion - and it was more a spirited  conversation than a disagreement. We were all pro-life, and Josh began with a personal story about his evolving position on abortion, from apathy to firm resolve that it is murder. Josh possesses a down to earth common sense that is brings a lot of clarity to complex issues, so it’s always productive to listen to him. Mrs. V was tiger-focused and detailed in her studied dissection of what abortion represented and how it gained such a foothold. She has a lawyerly quality about her, and I admired the eloquence and then the anxious passion that drove her. We did touch upon Barack Obama's position on abortion, and we provide a link here about his unwillingness to oppose killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. The discussion was interesting, and much was said about all aspects of the life issue, from conception to stem cell research.

  
  

  The Education issue rang the fight bell and we were quickly back in the ring throwing haymakers. Frank jumped the ropes and said it out loud - liberalism was the problem, vouchers were the solution! He railed against the politicization of education, derided the follies of liberal fads, and questioned the shifting priorities of government and culture. Martin from Radio Free Nation spoke for the liberals and in many ways agreed with Frank that education was suffering, but then proceeded to explain to everyone that conservatives, and Frank in particular wanted an end to public education - a position we were the last to be notified of. Martin took the predictable course and blamed racism for the low performance of some communities, and it wasn't until Mrs. V shouldered her way into the debate and demanded answers as to why funding varied from rich to poor (giving many answers herself) that we got down to brass tacks. It begged the question - understanding that while money is important - does it guarantee success? The night sky lit up and the rest of the segment was rockin'.

  
  

  The last subject was about America. Josh spoke passionately about the religious founding of this country, and his pride that America remains a God fearing and God loving country - it's where we find our moral center, and the inspiration for the common decency that makes this country a world leader, regardless of power. Frank introduced us to his father by describing wartime Sicily during WWII, where the man went from dodging bomb explosions to walking the streets of mainstreet America and creating a new life and a new family in a new land. The values that drove his father made America appear as the land of opportunity, and though he endured bigotry as an immigrant, he never lost sight of the potential that sparkled around him. His son Frank is a living testament to his father's optimism, and he believes that America has a lot to do with that. I talked for a few rushed minutes about the American experiment, and how proud I was to be surrounded by people from all over the world who were being schooled in the successes of freedom. The liberal team Began with Martin, who delivered a speech reminding us all of America's flickering hope and its many failures, and the looming spectre of racism that hampered the dream for so many. Mrs. V was emphatic - she loved this country. There were problems, but it was obvious that it was gonna take more than that to stop this woman - her moment on the lectern was a reflection of strength and drive. I think we all ought to follow her career. Then there was Scott’s perspective. Bitter. Defensive. Insecure. Our civil rights are being shredded, war abounds, laws ignored, Bush is Hitler. Wha...? There’s a reason why nobody takes conspiracy theorists seriously - because history to them is like a Jelly donut they suck the context out of. To be unable to tell the difference between a mass murdering megalomaniac that darkened the world with Nazism and George Bush, who keeps asking permission from the United Nations to stand against encroaching Islamo-fascist terrorists or North Korean nuko-communists, reveals a perspective that begins with a healthy skepticism of government but festers into a racialist paranoia surrounded by Ray-Ban wearing enemies intent on murdering us all. It's the Alex Jones effect. Needless to say, that wadded up spitball of putrescent patriotism slimed the walls and the lectern was burned to ashes along with any civility that might have survived the insults that flew freely.

  
  

  Who won? I think it was a three subjects to none victory for the conservatives, with the abortion issue a draw considering we each added to our conviction that all life deserves protection. In the War On Terror issue Scott merely hurled accusations that we spent our time debunking. The fascinating aspects of strategy, foreign policy and the future of the Middle East were never mentioned. In the state of education debate liberalism was not defended, instead partisanship itself was assailed (as if that were the issue), and ultimately the lack of money was blamed. But as we argued forcefully - money without a community that prioritizes education will mean wasted funds on failing schools. Money is not the first issue we need to address - accountability is. And finally on the last topic America, the conservatives showed themselves to love this country flaws and all, and were optimistic about its future. The Blue team tended to bemoan the obstacles ahead and rue the failure of America to confront those deep rooted malignancies. History paralyzes many on the left from working up the gumption to use the disgraceful record of American racism as motivation for greatness. Will an Obama presidency change that? Some on the right are desperate enough to heal divisions that they will vote for change. The next question will be whether anybody is willing to...

  

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