Diversification into the State and Local Marketplace

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Government Contracting A to Z

Government Contracting A to Z


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In today's episode of Government Contracting A to Z, Kevin interviews Jon Fyffe of Public CIO Magazine on marketing and diversification into the State and Local marketplace.


0:04 Intro

Broadcasting from the Winvale Studio in Washington D.C. Welcome to Government Contracting A to Z about letting the latest insight, trends and newsmakers in the world of federal state and local government contracting. For more on Winvale, visit winvale.com. Now, here's your host, Kevin Lancaster.

0:28 Kevin Lancaster

Hello and welcome. My name is Kevin Lancaster, managing partner of Winvale and the host of Government Contracting A to Z. Our goal is to provide you, the listener, the aspiring or seasoned government contractor with the latest insight, trends and the newsmakers in the world of government contracting. Thank you for joining me through this episode. As always, we hope you find a lot of value on today's program along with the many more episodes that come over the next year. It's hard to believe that it's already 2013 and we have survived a fiscal cliff disaster at least for now and so we're gonna press forward in 2013 and hope it's healthy and prosperous year for all of our listeners out there. Before we get started, I would be remitted if I did not encourage all of our listeners to head over to our sponsor website Winvale to find out how we can help accelerate your government sales marketing and contracting opportunities including the development of your GSA schedule contract. That site is www.winvale.com. Okay, again enough with the plugs. I'm surely excited about today's episode, episode 6 and by the industry expert that you'll hear from today. This podcast is especially important for those of you who have developed a particular focus selling into the federal marketplace or if historically still commercially and I'm looking for ways to expand your state in local government sales efforts. Even if you have a state and local practice that is doing well, you're still wanna tune in today and understand how to diversify and what resources that are really out there to help you expand your state local practice. With today's guest, Jon Fyffe, Publisher of Public CIO Magazine, you'll gain a better understanding of the state and local government marketplace and what resources are out there like I mentioned -- to help guide your strategies. The impact sequestration and this fiscal cliff talk could have on-state local contracting and what state and local CIOs are saying they're top priorities are these days. So, with that I'm honored to have Jon Fyffe, Publisher of Public CIO Magazine joining me today as I mentioned.

2:30 Kevin Lancaster

Jon is a well-respected industry expert in government contracting and here's a little bit that we pulled from his bio. So Jon is the founding Publisher of Public CIO Magazine and winner of numerous awards including the prestigious ASBE Magazine of the Year in 2009. He also serves as Vice President of Strategic Accounts for Government Technology media group. Jon divides his time working with CIOs and government executives developing content for Public CIO Magazine and as VP of Strategic Accounts, consulting with 25 of the largest information technology and telecom companies in the U.S. on their go-to market strategies and plans. He has held several executive positions with e.Republic since 1990 including founder of Digital Communities -- the highly successful strategic engagement program for local government leaders and the Information Technology Industry. Through his 20 years working with the public sector, Jon has been a frequent speaker to government, marketplace and the industry sharing his knowledge and expertise. Jon has worked in media and advertising for 30 years including two tenures at ABC Inc. Publishing. So as you can see, he knows what he is talking about so with that, Jon I wanna thank you for joining me today.

3:44 Jon Fyffe

Kevin, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here on the Winvale podcast and to talk to your listeners. I'm always excited to talk about the opportunities particularly in state and local government for information technology. It's really a powerful time, but a very exciting time I think filled with more opportunities for companies than ever before. So thank you for having me on the program today.

4:10 Kevin Lancaster

Yeah, absolutely and I have to personally thank you for dealing with the, about two weeks of having the flu and a cold and wanna have you. I know we had the scheduled here a couple of times and some fits and starts I wanna thank you for hanging in there and -- I get my voice back so with that, I guess we'll try to press forward here so thanks again. So, you're the Publisher of Public CIO Magazine obviously bring a ton of knowledge over 30 years of experience to the topic. If you could, give our listeners in your words a little bit about Public CIO Magazine and really what your role is and where your area focuses.

4:48 Jon Fyffe

Sure, Kevin I would be glad to. I guess first I would just say under our parent company, e.Republic, many people, listeners out there, both government and industry know us by our particular brands of Government Technology Magazine, Public CIO, Center for Digital Government, but overall the company e.Republic, we're celebrating our 25th anniversary and I think what we've done that all the good companies have done that have built a relationship is over the 25 years, just build trusted relationships in credible brands. So government tends to be a business as all of us know that you work with long-term, it's not that quick yet, it's really dependable being a provider in our case, the content provider that government comes to count on in the industry and really as a company, what we do is our position is smart media for public sector innovation. So I think part of our success has been that we've taken a lot of platforms including six publications, newsletters, blogs, videos, producing about 250 conferences and events and having a national research and advisory service or Center for Digital Government and Education that were just creating and connecting content that is a value for government and industry in terms of their job, what's mission critical, what's job critical, what value can we bring to help the two partner together and to get information that is helpful to performing so that's I think kind of the essence of our position and how we view ourselves as a company in the marketplace.

6:30 Kevin Lancaster

So you guys are a catalyst, a partner I guess that helps both sides of the equation -- government get the world out there, help find the latest and greatest and then industry at the same time -- help bridge that gap, help them figure out what the government is looking for and how to navigate their way into the public sector it sounds like.

6:51 Jon Fyffe

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is how we view our role as it's almost like a market integrator of bringing government and industry together in a variety of venues through the events, through the publications, through the different forms that we have, the online community so they work together because as you know sometimes government contracting is -- you're on one side as a supplier and the government found another and you've got an RFP that may or may not be designed to really facilitate the best practice and we really, I think help bring those lessons of best practices and the people together so you can just do business that benefits all the citizen. So, I would say that's correct positioning, absolutely.

7:37 Kevin Lancaster

It's great. So, give me a sense because -- those are audience that are familiar with the publications as we view you guys as a go-to source for information -- on state and local spending, tech trends, emergency management, governments and really the in vogue and pressing topics. Do you guys have a target audience in the commercial side of the business or -- when you're attracting industry or is it everybody that's looking to in some form or fashion work within the public sector?

8:11 Jon Fyffe

Well, all of our publications and all of our platforms are specifically in the public sector, but if it's a commercial company or maybe a contractor who's maybe been focused on the federal market, a lot of our services are designed to help -- bring someone who's newer to the marketplace and as well as how to leverage if you're a veteran company with already contracts and already a good pipeline how to manage that more fully. So, - I don't know if that answer that part of your question, maybe you wanted to dig a little deeper of how we segregate our audiences or so forth.

8:53 Kevin Lancaster

No, no that's great. I mean, I think that certainly helps us to get perspective. If we can kind of jump in to maybe some of the meat and potatoes type of questions that we have here because you guys are intimately involved in both sides of the equation, it can be working with governments and government CIOs and agencies in general on helping them figure out the -- some of their challenges and because you're working with industry as well -- what is your sense on -- these days you got tightening government budgets, you've got these -- turns like sequestration or fiscal cliff, are you seeing that have an impact on the state and local marketplace in particular?

9:35 Jon Fyffe

Yeah. Well, Kevin I wanna answer that. I just wanna make sure I did pull the, was that a good enough kind of answer on the previous one about where did you want me to outline any of the audiences or platforms or do you wanna jump right into the sequestration and budgets now?

9:54 Kevin Lancaster

Well no, let's take a step back, I mean yeah, I mean if we can -- to your point if you wanna elaborate on the different publications or maybe different target audiences and -- who you guys see as your -- who you're serving the commercial site, yeah, that would be great if you could take a step back and kind of...

10:12 Jon Fyffe

Yeah, I just want to make sure. I thought you were asking that. The reason is this might be relevant to our readers is when you are selling to government as you know you are not usually just selling to one particular individual. It's not just your purchasing agent or your contracting officer or the CIO. There is an ecosystem of decision makers and different audiences. So just as a quick brush of how we segregate our audiences. I might think that might give people a little insight into how do you effectively work this network of decision makers that can be involved in your product.

10:48 Kevin Lancaster


10:49 Jon Fyffe

So, just briefly, public sale that I am the publisher. We take one slice of our large audience going to the senior technology leadership, you know, the CIOs, the IT directors, the chief security officers and so forth, and really talk to those people about the strategic use of technology. If you are looking at Cloud, what's the business value or you're looking security, you know, how do you orchestrate and manage security program across your enterprise, those are some of the issues. In government technology, a lot people because they are familiar with these brands because they, you know, reaches 80,000 readers out there. Let's really talk more about the program and IT people and of case studies. Government wants to know who else is doing what and where that was successful, what challenges do they have and so forth. So, that's...

11:43 Kevin Lancaster


11:44 Jon Fyffe

That kind of slice in the audience and these are not mutually exclusive but they are related. Governing magazine is our platform. Many people know because it addresses the senior management and elected appointed officials but really addressing government issues overall everything from redistricting, to waste water, to infrastructure, to health issues, you know, and so, really technology and all of these they are not technical publications here. We're talking about the business of government, how information technology empowers them. And just a couple other slices we run our fastest growing publication is emergency management and that focuses across all sectors federal state and local on the leadership for those people that have to plan, prepare for or protect against disasters and all of these publications are free to qualify the individuals. So, if you are in the government space, you can go right up on the websites of any of these. You can get to them all from govtech.com and subscribe to them, to certainly or for all the government, for industry. Sometimes you have to know someone or be part of the community that you can usually subscribe and if someone needs any help with that, I will be happy to do that. Just two other points before I get back to your question on sequestration. I also run a program called digital communities that segregates local governments because cities and counties and special districts while there is 89,000 of them out there. They have a lot of communal and they need to share shared services, best practices and finally we run an education platform because all of these are magazines with associated websites and newsletters and events called Converge focused on the K-12 and higher ads. So I just want to give that, so our audience have the feel of how we go after and address those audiences with different content.

13:39 Kevin Lancaster

Now that helps because that gives us the broader spectrum to just how deep you guys go into this--into this market place and you to your point, I mean, we do--we see a number of, you know, publications or resources out there that maybe take, you know, a small slice of the pie and you kind of report on it but the fact that you guys have such a broad coverage of these topics from this technology to your point government and emergency management, I think that really help. They can really pain the picture if you will so, thank you for taking a step back and clarifying that, I appreciate that.

14:11 Jon Fyffe

Sure, no problem. I am sure people, like you said, you mentioned the fiscal cliff. We don't hear that word as much anymore and sequestration is probably a relief the world did not end according to the Mayan calendar or the fiscal cliff but...

14:27 Kevin Lancaster


14:28 Jon Fyffe

I think--exactly, I think we know that the--I wont say the thread, but still the looming effects of sequestration are not gone. I mean, we kick the can down the road if you will and, you know, delayed some of those tough decisions as we know it's sometimes hard to get some things done efficiently in Washington there. So, as we know, you know, these, you know, spending cuts the sequestration have to be worked out and I think there is a mixed feeling there certainly they are most directly affecting potentially the federal government marketplace and defense, you know, half of those defense discretionary spending and undoubtedly, we will work out some compromise and get things that won't be as bad as people thought, but people still want to know, how is that going to potentially affect us and your question in the state and local government. Well, we don't know for sure because we don't know how it's going to play out before the March 1st deadline and we also have the other deadline of our federal debt ceiling. We've got to increase that spending before we run out of money on March 27. So, both those things given that there is something will happen. On a worse case scenario, there will be in a fact again to state and local government because any of the federal funds and programs that go down. If they are going to be cut, they will be affected into state and local government. Probably the two biggest areas that are potentially at risk, but again in a much smaller scale and scope then the direct federal was at risk with some of the DoD programs is an education and some of the -- especially the disadvantage and special ed programs and probably secondly into some of the social services and work force and support programs there, but its hard. When I put myself in their shoes, its hard to plan for it necessary or prevent like what is that going to mean ultimately there is not a lot.

16:29 Jon Fyffe

I think you are going to do ahead of time. I think some of the mature federal contractors have already taken steps to prepare for that, but they haven't announced, you know, any layouts or plans because, they think, people are more optimistic that we're going to work things out. So, we think, you know, its something absolutely, you have to pay attention of, you have to be aware of, but the overall market factors and trends that are driving the market place and they advertise far out way the possible threat of some lost revenue into certain specific programs into state and local. So, it is of our concern, absolutely for all of us, but it's not as a major concern as the direct effects it could have on some of the federal and DOD markets.

17:16 Kevin Lancaster

Got it, got it. You know, is it possible to quantify relative to the federal market place and again I know a lot of our audiences historically been, you know, federally oriented and they're looking whether they have already began the transition or they, you know, or there, you know, starting the transition or looking at state and local as the next market place or market place to augment, you know, the federal and even some of their commercial practices but, you a sense of how big, in terms of dollars are spend, the state and what local market place is relative to federal?

17:51 Jon Fyffe

Yeah. Our centre for digital government and education, our national research and advisory services pulls every state, you know, most of the top 250 cities, counties, special districts and education institution. We have budget data on all __18:09__ and it's a much bigger challenge that the federal market because you don't have the aggregated reporting you do. Sometimes even within states, you know dealing with hundred of agencies and then multiple cities and counties. So, you can find your overall budgets and numbers but how much they actually spend on information technology and where it goes is a bigger challenge. With that said, you know, if you look at and were are not the only company that does market forecast out there, all of us are fairly in agreement, fairly close, in terms of what we say. Our centre for digital government on PEGS, state and local governments spending--IT spending not their overall spending at above 92 billion dollars, the federal government about 81 billion and education separate from that about 20 billion in IT spending. Now that includes hardware, software's services and even IT personnel in there and the--I guess the good thing about most all the publics sector markets and certainly state of government is the trends on that is still stable. I mean, our--you know, spending has not gone down in terms of our overall numbers of work force since World War II with just slight 1% or 2%. That is one of the benefits of working in the government market phase because of the budget based nature. You have a good consistent dependable amount of spending. Even if the budgets go up or down slightly year to year. Stable local governments of course have to run a balanced budget, so even if they do some gains with the rainy day funds or so forth, they have to have the revenue to offset any of those budgets.

19:51 Jon Fyffe

So, that gives you an idea on the overall size of the market place, in terms of growth to, state and local government, the--its actually very good market place right now because they went through the last four or five years of real steer cutting and doing any layoffs and, you know, the economy was hurting, but now we've had our property taxes has been up, corporate income is up where at record highs on the __20:19__. So, the state and local governments, the good budgets are directly tied to the revenue and NASBO, that's the National Association of State Budget Officers, even in the last report three months ago projected 2.2% revenue increase and we're gaining revenue over that. So we think due to those facts as well as the pent-up demand there is a lot of appetite for IT acquisition because so many things were put off over the last three to four years too.

20:51 Kevin Lancaster

Yeah, it's amazing to think -- just in terms of the last three, four or five years -- I was having a conversation with partner technology of ours whether they're CTOs, the evolution of technology and it just how quickly things change these days, not just in the four-year period. I mean just think about in a 12-month period, how quickly technology change and if the state and local marketplace in the senses -- skilled back and hasn't really I guess refreshed their technologies or really -- taking the lead in being proactive with adapting new technologies. You essentially got a four or five year __21:39__ to get over. So it's I think into your point that this could be interesting where the next couple of years in the state and local marketplace. Yeah, there is an element of catch up, but then the rate of technology and how quickly the changes this is just gonna be really fascinating quite frankly just to see how this all plays out here the next couple of years.

21:48 Jon Fyffe

Yeah, I agree Kevin. I mean there is such appetite for innovation to it in terms of changing things of how they work with their constituencies and crowd sourcing and making applications that were internal, be public facing and citizen service and all the new technologies that we have from Cloud and Mobility and so forth out there are really driving a lot of innovative new applications that are meeting with quite a bit of success. So I agree, it's when there is plenty of money around quite frankly, there is not as much need or want or desire to innovate, but when you have enough times, that's when people start actually doing things different and it's been actually quite refreshing. Many of the CIO's and directors I talked out there had been able to get things done with less money because they're able to look at it differently rather than just keep maintaining our old system, how do we do things differently, how do we move to a cloud model or so forth. So it is an exciting time.

22:51 Kevin Lancaster

Yeah, really analyze the challenges -- and build programs around that as opposed to just storing dollars at problems if you will I guess is maybe some of the thing that at least we're seeing so yeah, I completely agree with you. So, in your interactions with CIO's and state and local marketplace in general, given that there is an interesting uptake potentially in sales and just the marketplace in general, where some of the underlying things that you're seeing out there. We're looking at adoption of cloud technologies and we've been through this, do more with less, but one of the saying, one of the CIO saying is that their top priorities and what are some of the other common teams that you're hearing out there in your surveys at the marketplace.

23:41 Jon Fyffe

And again, it's based not only on working directly with government everyday of the week. We have some of our people meeting with government officials and our advisory boards, but certain people on a regular basis not just once a year and let's face it, the number one issue for everybody is gonna be the budget or the economy and how it relates to jobs. So given that as that something that affects all of us there with this more favorable economic circumstances, people are looking not at technology now, not as backroom automation, but is core to the business processes of government and so allow the CIO's and officials that I talked to, I mean there are certainly different strategies and I would say some of the big things from a technology perspective relate around Cloud, mobility, security, social media and I will give you some examples. I pulled a couple of charts from our recent digital cities and county survey and then some information from our digital states and also from NASCIO, another organization that works with some of the state CIOs and here is some particular topics and I'll just read a couple from cities because I think they are so common with counties. So one of the -- going back to the number one issue about budget and so forth, 90% of cities and I would put cities and counties there pursuing grants and fees to less independents on the general fund. So they're looking at alternative revenues. They're also looking to different innovations of financing, partnerships, different models and saying here is what our general fee and how much do I have for capital when operating expenses. Another big factor is when we talk about cloud, any consolidation about activities of government like the federal government in the same way.

25:42 Jon Fyffe

You know, really proliferated with lots of data centers and servers and so fort and they had been on a journey for a number of years to consolidate those and they're probably -- three-quarters away through that journey so they're continuing to do that, consolidate, not just the data centers or servers that most of them are done by application, staff, delivery and looking at shared services models where some of the challenges that government have has not been the technological but maybe the more bureaucratically the policy or governance that how do we share a service across a city or a state or a county line with just different jurisdictions and some of the rules. Those had been the bigger barriers, but we're seeing now a number of those applications up and running and other shared services environments in Utah, in Michigan and a variety of places where they're saying, "Hey, not everyone has to build every application or host post everyone". Sometimes it is strange that you'll have in one building, you'll have two or three networks or providers coming into one building or sharing 19 facilities when it's all under one government where they could consolidate several of those so I think that type of consolidation both from agency -- mergers and so forth. It's good because also every time it does that, there has to be a technology refreshing. We don't just bring some people together or in a new environment or sharing technology without having to upgrade because they certainly had -- reliance on an older system. I would say the other thing that most quite well is their reliance on the private sector on -- or contracting community because government is experiencing -- an attrition of their work force, it's a big, big issue, they are more baby boomers in government that are retiring.

27:44 Jon Fyffe

There are people with skill sets that aren't being replaced and we can't keep this -- a 30-year-old unemployment system or helping human services medicate management system going and two guys who know how to do COBOL programming are leading, so we've got to move that to a different architecture and environment and I think that government works with private contractors more than any other thing and they will continue to do so because we know they frequently don't pay their commensurate salaries. They have to rely on their industry partners and I think that there is more willingness to do that than ever before. So those are a couple of the things, I would like to touch on just a couple of more because I think these are important to people so when you talk about mobility, one of the big issues is -- the whole device management, bring your own device, how are we integrating our mobile computing with smart phones and tablets and so forth and the different states and localities are different positions, but I think it's almost like some type of bring your own devices inevitable obviously that changes with the types of information you're handling or security or classifications, but even on that, I think people want to be empowered. There is more teleworkers so that's a big issue making all the apps mobile, how do you manage them, the security questions within there and not just with the mobile environment, but security overall, I think we know as we probably can't spend too much on cyber security or the different practices there since so much of we do in our information economy is all digital now and I think that is going to continue to be really fighting for funding on that. So, those are a couple of the areas that I think are important also, in social media as a communication vehicle, both internal and external, it's getting a lot of attention.

29:47 Jon Fyffe

And then a couple of other things that I think are drivers if you will out there -- certainly in any type of modernization in the legacy environment is going to be important because we have a lot of systems that are still up and running after 30 years or more, but they need to be migrated and how do we do that effectively? Again, it's gonna depend on the community out there or kind of a shared community between government and industry. So those are a couple of things that we see out there. I think has covered the top area, but certainly not all of them, but those are some that I think are driving the demand for IT acquisition if you will.

30:37 Kevin Lancaster

Yeah, that's fantastic. Now to your point you know about like some legacy systems, leave the agency nameless here, but it is scary when they mention that they are still running mission critical programs on legacy mainframes and it was just a 30-35 year old technologies that to your point. I mean you have got this you know mass exodus or retirement of the folks that have been around for the last 30 years, but you have nobody going out there and you know taking courses on keeping mainframes up to date. So it's going to be interesting dynamic here over the next couple of years I mean. And also for the contractor you know as we mentioned we kind of kicked this thing off and get a strong federal community here that will certainly tuning into this podcast and certainly for these other folks that have more of a commercial practice or even a smaller state local practice. You know what's your best piece of advice? What's the first thing that these organizations should be doing when they are looking at the state local market place? And I would say its one of kind of those bowl of the ocean type questions, but you know where do people start you know if they are just looking out and looking in the state local market place?

32:02 Jon Fyffe

Yeah, that's a great question. I probably get asked that a lot. I think what I encourage if I have kind of a break it down to a five-step plan for people. Assuming you have done step 0 is knowing who you are as an organization and what's you value proposition and you core kind of strength and so forth is to play to your strings and you know all business is in some degree of local business. I mean unless you have you know strictly an electronic business or an internet business. So what that would be, would be to write in terms of diversifying your portfolio and making sure you either diversify or expand it, is to develop a plan to build a relationships. And while we still do a lot of you know, business, online and so forth, and government is -- they are running off and they work face-to-face and it does not supplant other things, but people like to buy from people they know and trust and will be there again and that's a big deal I think for overall, but certainly for government you know. While it has a reputation for low price on times, there are plenty of margins there and so forth contracts on people want to have those relationships to someone that's dedicated to their business, they are not just trying to make their numbers for this quarterly statement and they are going to be there to service them. So knowing that, you know get out and meet the people. You can look through our websites. You can go on our digital government navigator service to find -- you know there is plenty of conference and events. Again, we do 250 alone in the state and local. So find out where if there is a sweet spot. I would say as you know very well you know you also have to have -- if you don't have already a vehicle to sell.

34:00 Jon Fyffe

So I know you folks do great work with many of the contracts, especially the GSA and the Schedule 70 is now open to be used out there for the state and local, it has been growing fast. So if you are not on a contract, get authorized a contract, make sure you have the vehicles to sell from and go and build those relationships and I would say one of the key points probably number 3 in there and this really separates people -- two things I think separates the people are successful long-term __34:31__. Is one, do your homework before you make the call. So go on to our digital government navigator site if you don't have access to that go under the state website, look at their contracts. You know we spend -- we have whole teams of researchers and analysts that just make sure you know, you know what they are buying? What are their contracts? Read their IT strategic plan virtually everyone of these organizations unless they are very small or has one. They will tell you about their technology road map, their planned acquisitions for at least their overall -- it may not give you their whole installed base or their infrastructure, but find out as much as you can and that separates you right away above maybe 50% of the companies are come in there and say "Hey! How do we do this and secure? Tell me about your needs? Or what are your paying points? Or what do you guys working on?" It's a lot more impressive obviously. It may sound basic, but you would be surprised how many people don't do their homework ahead of time. And then build your network of your partners because every few companies come in and have a whole solution just by themselves. It's usually made up of other people that one day you will team with may be it will be a competitor another time, but you know, you will build those relationships and they will say, "Yeah. Hey I was just talking to Bill over in department transportation and they were looking for an identity management solution, I knew you guys have one". So you can get business through your network.

36:02 Jon Fyffe

So those are the main steps. You know look at your core mission, build out a plan, go and build those relationships by developing a face-to-face context you know meet people at the events, government will tell you. And they will give you information and let you know. I mean unless it's a classified thing. That information is accessible even whose won the bids, the awards, we post all the awards, how much they have used on the contracts, when their renewal is, what the pricing was so that you can get that information. Again, do your homework, build your partners and day up to day in terms of the information out there and you will find that you know, I wouldn't call in annuity business, but government loves to keep buying from people that service them and provide that good service and that's more important than price in the long-term and will pay dividends for you.

36:58 Kevin Lancaster

Absolutely. That's just you know, that's the fundamental business what I want right. Relationships and you know again to your point you know you made a lot of outstanding points today, you know we see so many people and so many companies that are there too just pure marketing automation or you know just pure you know I don't know -- it just outbound campaigns. They are not taking that extra step, that extra initiative. They actually go out, sit down and build those relationships and they kind of go and get so far without meeting somebody face-to-face, shaking hands and building that relationship and continuing to foster that relationship. So I think you know very, very sounded by a sin. If I could, you know I could certainly vouch for the quality and the content that you guys provide as a subscriber to digital government navigator, you know not just you know the market alerts, but you know all the pre PR information you guys provide on a daily basis, its certainly something that we use here internally to keep our eye on kind of what's going on in direction. So we kind of represent that internally and then to your point again we go out there and try to build a relationship. And so I think that's absolutely spot on advice for our listeners today. So I can't thank enough for hopping on here and giving us a run down of on your background, public CIO, government technology in general and you know its has really been -- I think just its great to hear such great content and insights. Because you have such a track record in this market place and so I want to thank you for hopping on again bearing with me through this season of the flu and colds and what __38:44__. And so Jon thanks so much for hopping on and we really appreciate that you were sharing you insight today.

38:52 Jon Fyffe

Well, Kevin thank you again very much for having us and I would happy to follow up with anyone. And again, you can go on to any of our websites to like govtech.com or central interdigital government and we are happy to make sure you can get access to the publications and newsletters and you know, I would be happy to work with you or any of your partners there too. You can always send an email to me too at just jfyffe@govtech.com. So I really appreciate the opportunity and hope we have provided some value to your listeners.

39:27 Kevin Lancaster

Absolutely. Yeah, actually you did. Well, to our listeners be sure you get a full recap of Jon's interview and learn more about public CIO and government technology by checking out the show notes on our website governmentcontract.com underneath the Government Contracting A to Z page. We will have the links back to Jon, their site and to their digital government navigator as well. So I want to thank you for tuning in and helping to make this podcast possible. If you have liked what you have heard, please hop over to iTunes and leave us some positive feedback on the show. And as always you can follow me on Twitter, my handle on Twitter is @GovernmentSales and you can certainly follow Winvale. Winvale's handle is @Winvale as well. That's W-I-N-V-A-L-E. If you like to send in a question and have a topic you would like to learn more about, send us an email at info@governmentcontract.com and we will make sure we respond back to you here as quickly and efficiently as possible. This certainly helps to keep us providing you the listener with great content out there and keep the show going. So until next time, we wish you the best and hope your government contract initiatives are thriving.

40:38 Intro

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