THE NEW VILLAGE RADIO  

Show Notes

• Archived Blog Post

  Date / Time: 2/8/2009 7:50 PM UTC

  Spy centre will track you on holiday
  

  THE government is building a secret database to track and hold the international travel records of all 60m Britons.

  The intelligence centre will store names, addresses, telephone numbers, seat reservations, travel itineraries and credit card details for all 250m passenger movements in and out of the UK each year.

  The computerised pattern of every individual’s travel history will be stored for up to 10 years, the Home Office admits.

  The government says the new database, to be housed in an industrial estate in Wythenshawe, near Manchester, is essential in the fight against crime, illegal immigration and terrorism. However, opposition MPs, privacy campaigners and some government officials fear it is a significant step towards a total surveillance society.

  Related Links

  • The first ID cards are here - but no one in the UK can read them

  • The desperate horde on Britain's doorstep

  Chris Grayling, shadow home secretary, said: “The government seems to be building databases to track more and more of our lives.

  “The justification is always about security or personal protection. But the truth is that we have a government that just can’t be trusted over these highly sensitive issues. We must not allow ourselves to become a Big Brother society.”

  Some immigration officials with knowledge of the plans admit there is likely to be public concern. “A lot of this stuff will have a legitimate use in the fight against crime and terrorism, but it’s what else it could be used for that presents a problem,” said one.

  “It will be able to detect whether parents are taking their children abroad during school holidays. It could be useful to the tax authorities because it will tell them how long non-UK domiciled people are spending in the UK.”

  The database is also expected to monitor people’s travel companions.

  Phil Woolas, the immigration minister, defended the plans. “The UK has one of the toughest borders in the world and we are determined to ensure it stays that way. Our high-tech electronic borders system will allow us to count all passengers in and out and targets those who aren’t willing to play by our rules.”

  In a report last week, the House of Lords constitution committee, whose members include Lord Woolf, the former lord chief justice, called for a significant cutback in the state’s surveillance powers.

  It said Britain’s traditions of privacy and democracy were under threat from pervasive and routine electronic spying and the mass collection of personal information.

  The Wythenshawe spy centre will house more than 300 police and immigration officers. A similar number of technicians will help check travellers’ details against police, MI5, benefit agency and other government “watch lists”.

  The exact location of the new database is a secret within Whitehall, although Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, accidentally let slip during a public talk to officials late last year that it was in the Manchester area. All staff have now been instructed to refer to it only as “a new operations centre in the northwest”.

  The database is the unpublicised part of the government’s so-called “e-borders” programme, intended to count everyone who comes in and out of the country by 2014. At the moment the UK Border Agency is running a pilot which monitors the travel movements of passengers on “high-risk” routes from a small number of airports, including Heathrow and Gatwick.

  Some 70m passenger movements have been tracked to date, but this is expected to increase to 100m by the end of April. Officials hope that by the end of next year 95% of the 250m annual passenger movements will be logged in the database.

  The origins of e-borders stem from 2005 when Tony Blair, then prime minister, was unable to say, during a television interview with the BBC’s Jeremy Paxman, how many failed asylum seekers were in Britain.

  Under the scheme, once a person buys a ticket to travel to or from the UK by air, sea or rail, the carrier will deliver that person’s data to the agency.

  The data is then checked against various watchlists to identify those involved in abuse of UK immigration laws, serious and organised crime, and terrorism.

  At the moment limited information about selected routes and travellers is kept on the pilot database run by the agency at an office in Hounslow, west London. In future, all such data will automatically be sent in bulk to the new database, instead of being released in response to specific requests by the authorities.

  Lord Carlile, the government’s independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, said privacy concerns had to be balanced against the need to gather intelligence on terrorism suspects. “Travel patterns are a powerful tool in the fight against terrorism,” he said.

  These stories about the slow erosion of our liberties and rights seem to be coming up with alarming regularity. Many of my friends are in the 'if you have nothing to hide' category and it infuriates me.
  We can protest and complain all we want.
  They're still going to do it.

  Fran, Carlisle,

  I am seriously considering moving abroad... to a country which doesnt spy on its citizens AND loose the data!
  How many times in the past 12months have public agencies lost personal details of british citizens? but still the labour government allow more and more information to be collected and stored

  S P, London, MIDDX

  I left the U K 4 years ago for Ukraine. Even here we have more freedoms than you people in the U K. When are you going to start demonstrating in the streets. When are you going to put Blair, Brown, et al, in prison for treason and fraud.
  Wake up, object now, before really violent protests start.

  Riley, Kiev, Ukraine

  But all along no need for a passport or visa for illegal immigrants trying to enter and live here.
  
  Perhaps rather than policing the hell out of our own people the government might finally get tough on illegal immigration..and shut the door

  evan, london,

  All else aside: anyone think they'll ever get the data wrong?
  
  I wonder what horrors of horrors they will subject an honest citizen to when they do get it wrong? Dawns raids with prior "leaks" (tip-offs) to the gutter press would just be a start I suspect.

  BA, Swindon,

  That's English Socialism for you. Lot's of big government.
  Orwell was spot on about Ingsoc. As long as the proles have their DVD, internet, beer, gambling, etc. then they're happy.

  Phill, Cheshire, UK

  Nazism, plain and simple. Our country is being destroyed by the mad dogs in power. Is there nobody in a position of power/influence willing to put a stop to this nightmare? It's so vile it truly beggars belief. Absolutely criminal in fact.
  
  Wake up people, and act, before it's too late.

  Peter Godfrey, Eastbourne, UK

  Quiet everybody. Listen very carefully.
  Can you hear it? Nor can I .
  Not a word from either opposition party promising to scrap this plan the minute this Stalinist mob are thrown out at the next election.
  That is even more frightening than the database itself.

  Danny, Ashford, Kent

  Where in the Labour manifesto did it say that they will spy on your every movement, communication, and thought? Where is the public debate about this? What are our Opposition MPs doing to stop the erosion of our privacy and liberty? And fundamentally why have we got to this place?

  Kevin, Lymington,

  When we look around the world, now we know which enemy state threatens us the most with ruin and enslavement.
  It's not Iran, Russia or N Korea.
  It's our own.

  Mark, London, UK

  The point of these databases is nothing to do with terrorism but to limit our ability to protest. For those who have espoused the 'nothing to hide' argument, perhaps you can begin to see that you were hoodwinked: it was always about what you had to lose - freedom and democratic rights.

  John Levett, Eastbourne, UK

  Simple - VOTE THEM OUT - it's the only language these people understand

  Dave Roy, Wellingborough, England

  This article should be headlined in EVERY newspaper in the land.

  Nelson, Colchester, England

  They also plan to use this across the British Isles. Travel from England, to the Isle of Man, to Belfast then on to Glasgow and they will log all the data BEFORE you travel. Presumably they will match the data with the ID Cards database so they have a complete profile of you.
  
  Ghastly!

  Charlie, Isle of Man,

  World's biggest dna database of innocent people, monitoring of all phone calls and emails, car journeys tracked via number recognition, under 18s' details on a database, stripsearch scanners, all travel monitored, spying by numerous agencies now allowed..Cold War Russia? The STASI? No, Britain.

  D Thompson, Driffield, UK

  Bob, no need to show your passport. The carrier will have informed the authorities of your movements and swimming the Channel is just not an option, at lease for most.

  S Jaeger, London,

  The rest of Europe are "opening" their borders through the Schengen agreement (Switzerland and Norway included), and the UK is becoming more insular and more isolated. What a paranoid and cut off nation.

  Jon Kingsbury, Southampton, UK

  It won't work, I registered for "Iris" at Manchester but later returned to Gatwick. The automatic barrier wouldn't open when my irises were scanned. The officer who came to help said that it often didn't work for people who registered in Manchester and he wished they'd get rid of it.

  David Hedley, Stafford, UK

  This isn't about protecting us from so called terrorists, its about policing the British people and making sure we dont 'get away' with anything.

  Jamie, Birmingham, UK

  I regularly travel from mainland Europe to UK, and when driving and using a boat crossing I very, very rarely am asked for my passport on either leaving or entering Britain. In fact, last time I forgot to take my passport - no problem !

  Bob, Tarn, France

  I am a seventy years old Warwickshire born British citizen living in France. Maybe your article explains why I can no longer return home (on Eurostar) without being forced into stating how long I intend to remain in MY OWN country.

  JAMES RUNNALLS, URCAY, FRANCE

  I would be outraged, but this database probably won't even be completed by the IT people, and even if they have this information, they'll probably lose it before they can do anything with it anyway.

  JF, Beijing,

  I am disturbed by all this technological surveillance of the mass of the population. Surely the point is that criminals, terrorists, illegal immigrants and the like fly UNDER THE RADAR, and so will evade detection by electronic border controls and biometric ID cards that no-one can read anyway!

  Michael P, Wuhan, P R China

  Database after database is foisted upon us despite complaints. Why? Because our objections do not matter. Our petty moaning on websites and letters pages are laughable in the Government's eyes. As a nation, its people need to collectively take action. Stop this rot - and reverse it.

  Jeff, London,

  This is a great example of how Big Brother got put into place to begin with: the protection of personal safety. Labour will protect your safety to the point where they know more about you than you do. What's surprising is that they're frank about it, I'm sure the US does it without telling anyone.

  Matt Zetlin, Washington D.C., USA

  I am saddened by the way our privacy and liberties are slowly being eaten away by governments under the pretext of security.
  Will illegals buy tickets to come in on scheduled flights / sailings etc ?
  We need to stand up against this high handedness from this government.

  Hamad Lone, London, England

  Oh, the indignation. I think you will find that the US Dept of Homeland Security (which Obama doesn't seem in any rush to reform) does the same thing and Sarkozy is in hot water over similar plans.
  I suspect all governments are doing it - or at least those with IT consultants knocking on their door

  eddie reader, birmingham, england

  "The UK has one of the toughest borders" - rubbish!
  
  Our border controls have been run down year on year and customs staff depleted since we joined the EU. Anything to re-harden our too porous borders against criminals from terrorists to drug, gun and people smugglers is always to be welcomed.

  paul j. weighell, purley, england

  We already live in a surveillance society in which ordinary citizens are tracked by a number of agencies on a daily basis.The excuse is given that it is alright for people to have no privacy providing it is invaded by an official or the organisation for which he/she works.

  David, kings lynn, uk

  Does anyone at all expect this data to fulfill the intended function? The government cannot keep health, tax and other records out of the hands of thieves, or stop its employees losing laptops. Why should this latest lot of data be different?

  Meic Pearse, Houghton, U.S.A. (ex-pat Brit)

  I live in Malaysia and the last time I visited the UK - you just walked in carrying your UK passport getting a cursory nod from the customs guy, and it was the same on the way out. Have they really computerised??

  neddy, KL,

  I have no objection to the Government keeping details of my travel plans on computer - they have all the other information already - but why my credit card details?

  Patricia Thornton, Veliko Tarnovo, Bulgaria

  Presumably it will also be useful to track the movements of those tax exiles who nip in and out of the country to avoid legitimate taxes.....or is it just for the proletariate?
  
  I wonder if there will be any data leaks,, i.e your away on holiday so your house gets burgled etc etc ??

  joe, manchester, uk

  Emigrate Baby Emigrate
  Where the Sun never sets...
  Where the Party never stops..
  Where the Life goes on and on...
  So that U never back again to Brtitain....
  Emigrate Baby Emigrate

  Uma Shankar, UK,

  I feel I am losing my country, entrusted to those not capable of the responsibility. Wilde said "consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative" - no creativity, no innovation. Smother everyone in inceasing process and regulations, supported by an ever more expensive stultifying bureaucracy.

  Mick, Guildford, UK

  i think this has been going on for some time. They scan your passport into their database at most airport terminals and eurostar, rather than just checking it is genuine and you are not on their wanted list manually.

  K Jenkinson, Newcastle, UK

  Yet another reason I will leave this country as soon as I've finished my studies. Much as I like its people, the government seems to be using 1984 as their guide-book. Hopefully it will not come that far in Germany.

  Tom, MB, Germany

  One of the toughest borders contols in the world!!! I like the sentence,everyone must play by the rules, would that include Peers and M.Ps. Do they REALLY believe what they say or is it just spin. I really do wonder just what is going on in the U.k.

  gparker, auckland, new zealand

  The newspapers must fight this tooth and nail

  David Griffin, Ilfracombe, Devon

  More and more of our basic freedoms are being ignored or removed by this government under the auspice of tackling crime, illegal immigration or terrorism. When are people going to wake-up to the fact that we are being herded into the Orwellian nightmare using government spin.

  Les, Southport, England

  I can't believe we have sleep-walked into this situation. We left a year ago - couldn't put up with it all any more. Love the UK to bits, but it needs to wake up and say no.

  Steve L, Katikati, New Zealand

  Tricky one to defeat. A trip to Paris, and then on to my final destination. Are the French onside? Obviously a terrorist wouldn't think of that. I think there must be another motive.

  Ashleigh, London,

  The tragedy is the meekness with which the British accept this type of treatment. We expected nothing else of Nu Labour but I am shocked that no one puts up a fight any longer.

  Paul, Saigon,

  Next time I'm off to Europe I'll be landing in Frankfurt

  Casey, Adelaide, Australia

  plan=graduate, leave, never return. we already live in a surveillance society i fell ashamed at what the labour party have done to my one proud country

  Dave Winchester, Ilminster,

  Most people complain that the goverment doesn't do enough against terrorism, illegal immigration and crime. What kind of security checks do you think would be correct to apply both to your neighbour and also to yourself?

  Lou, Dublin, Ireland

  I suppose being spontaneous will flag up on the system and everyone with an ounce of last minute creativity will be a suspect of something.

  Farrukh, Woking,

  Can you Brits say George Orwell?????

  Bruce L. Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA

  What a horrible place the UK is becoming.

  Paul, London, UK

  Bev, I a lot of people are thinking like that. This government is despicable. Even a few years ago there'd be large protests over this sort of thing. Now... nothing.

  harry, london,

  Unfortunately so many people in this country are too stupid to actually realise the devasting mistake they made when they voted in this government - it will take generations to undo the damage these career politicians have done to our once beautiful land.

  Ian, Oxford, UK

  Presumably this will also capture data on visitors from overseas. I wonder if the government will offer us frequent flyer points so I can visit home more often?
  
  Bev of Buckingham, I understand how you feel, having left the UK 23 years ago. But trust me when I tell you it'll always be home....

  Ian Morgan, Melbourne, Australia

  I left the UK the day that Labour were elected and vowed never to return
  
  This is just anther reason why

  Tony V, Athens, Greece

  “The UK has one of the toughest borders in the world and we are determined to ensure it stays that way. Our high-tech electronic borders system will allow us to count all passengers in and out and targets those who aren’t willing to play by our rules.”
  Absolute rubbish.

  Ian, Bangkok, Thailand

  my privacy is my property. To yield or not as I see fit. It is MOT the property of any government by default

  Tom, Ludlow, UK

  • Tags:
  • is that already came
  • Permalink