Denise Wakeman, The Blog Squad  

Denise Wakeman:  Hi, this is Denise Wakeman of the Blog Squad.

Patsi Krakoff:  And this is Patsi Krakoff.

Denise:  And you're listening to "Blogging and Beyond," the show about how to leverage the Internet to attract, sell, and profit.
For the next 30 minutes, we're going to bring you the best expert information out on how to use the Internet to build your business. During our show today, we're talking about how to use a niche blog to corner your market. We're speaking with Shirley Frazier, president of Sweet Survival and SoloBusinessMarketing.com. She also publishes the wildly successful niche blog, Gift Basket Business.

Patsi:  That's right, Denise. And I remember sitting next to you at the BlogHer Business Conference when Shirley was one of the panelists. After listening to her, you said to me, "We have got to get her on the show. This lady really knows what she's talking about."

Denise:  And that's why we're talking to her today. Why don't you go ahead and formally introduce Shirley.

Patsi:  Absolutely. Shirley George Frazier is founder and president of Sweet Survival. She calls herself an excavator who uncovers business and marketing solutions for home based entrepreneurs. She shares her findings on www.SoloBusinessMarketing.com  and www.GiftBasketBusiness.com . Shirley's also a professional speaker who conducts seminars at business and trade shows nationwide. So welcome, Shirley.

Shirley Frazier:  Hello. Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be here, and I really look forward to sharing great ideas and information with the listeners.

Denise:  Great. Well, Shirley, we were really excited to meet you at BlogHer Business and hear what you had to say when you talked about your gift basket business blog and the success you've had. So I want to start there. We know that was the first site that you launched on the web. Is that right?

Shirley:  That's right.

Denise:  OK. Can you give us a bit of background about how and why you started that blog?

Shirley:  Sure. I do have a GiftBasketBusiness.com website, and I started that back in 1998. That was, pretty much as I could see, the first website that provided educational materials and support to the gift basket industry. Gift basket professionals are in a very small niche market, and by that I mean that they are a subsection of the entire gift industry. There was no information that I could find at least on the web that helped them to cultivate their markets, to find new resources and ideas for building a successful gift basket business.

I saw when blogs came online, and all the fury about blogs, and how that brought more interest to your website, or how to start a blog and not have a website. It took a couple of years to decide whether or not I wanted to blog about the gift basket business versus just having a website. After a couple of years when I could see that blogs were not going anywhere, that they were just getting stronger on the Internet, and reading a lot about how blogs seemed to be indexed quicker than websites for whatever reason   we don't know why and you kind of don't even ask why   I decided to start the blog and to bring more awareness of the industry to people who are making gift baskets as a hobby or as a business.

People are coming into the gift basket business from either direction, and I believe that if they could find the blog, then I would have different types of information that would lead them back to the site. So that's why I started the blog.

Denise:  OK, so you started your website in 1998. What year did you start the blog?

Shirley:  The blog, I believe I started it in either 2004 or 2005. The time goes so quickly that I would actually have to look in the archives to see when the blog started, but somewhere around there.

Denise:  So you were kind of at the beginning of the blog for business trend.

Shirley:  Yes, I believe so. Because I think that blogs were more of a personal nature, and then it was for consumers, and then finally things started picking up for the business side of blogs. And that is when, I believe, I did start finally blogging about the baskets and about the business.
Denise:  Right. We started our business blogs in 2004, also, and I think that was sort of at the beginning of the business trend, versus personal trend. So what would you say is the difference between your gift basket website and your gift basket blog? What do you do differently on the two?

Shirley:  Well, the website is a collection of articles and success tips and educational materials to help a person succeed. Whether they want to make gift baskets as a hobby, just sporadically, or turn it into a full fledged business. That's the kind of information that I have there. I also have a complimentary newsletter that's published every Wednesday for a person at either end, as I had said before.

The blog, in a way, brings the website more up to date, with different news stories and specific breaking news information that I would not add to the website as quickly as I would add to the blog. I'm able to find information on the web through different techniques, through different search engine listings. Information that I can tell people about very quickly, give my opinion, and see if anybody else has, either the same opinion, or has a different view on what I've explained.

Denise:  OK. That leads into my next question about where you find information and ideas to share with your audience. You mentioned a couple. Can you be more specific about how you find that information?

Shirley:  Sure. I use the alert systems that are through Yahoo! and Google. Those two alert systems have been very beneficial to me. What I do is go into the alert system under my name, my address, and just put in "gift baskets" or "gift basket." It's amazing that you actually have to both types of names, one without the "s" and one with the "s," so that you actually get all the information about gift baskets delivered to your email.

Different types of news stories from around the world come to me through the alert system about gift baskets. Whether it is about zoning, which is a very hot topic in the industry. Because some people cannot...whether we can make gift baskets at home, if their block is not zoned for gift baskets. So there are different stories on that.

There's other stories about individuals who have stolen gift baskets from retail stores and what has happened. Floods. Good news, of course, comes through, as well. Information that I wouldn't think would be captured by news sources. That's one way that I find my news.

And then, others, just to fill in a bit. If I'm not getting enough news stories, I look through my archives on the website and create different stories to just bring a certain area about gift baskets up to date. So for example, drop shipping gift baskets is very, very popular with individuals who can't make gift baskets, don't have time to make them, and want a quick place to make the gift baskets for them and deliver it and get a percentage of the sale.

So I'll go into my archives and just develop a story about drop shipping to alert individuals about drop shipping, what's going on with it, just some updated news that I might have heard from a person who's using a drop shipper and add that information to the blog.

Denise:  OK. Well, that's great. That's great. Patsi, did you have a question?

Patsi:  Yeah, I did. I know that when you put up the gift basket blog, you had good results. Do you want to share those with us?

Shirley:  Sure. Actually, it's very funny that   well, not really funny   but very interesting that I can tell from my statistics how popular the blog is without anyone commenting on the blog. Gift basket professionals are notoriously quiet. They are so because they are busy with their craft. They are busy working on marketing, getting another sale, going to different events, and putting all the pieces of their business together.

But through Google Analytics, through my blog log, and through   I'm trying to think of the other statistics report that I have. I think it's AW Stats   I can tell how many people were coming through the blog and how they're kind of taking that and going to the website to get more information. So I can track through my statistics, through the three different statistics, which blog posts are more popular so that I can kind of piggy back on that and also determine what else I should develop on the site but through the blog, through different postings that I will place on the blog over time. So that's how I can tell how popular the blog is.

Denise:  Now, you also have consulting or products for these gift basket professionals, right?

Shirley:  Exactly. Yes.

Denise:  So that's what you're driving them to, to purchase your service or products.

Shirley:  Yes.

Denise:  OK.

Shirley:  Very nicely, and that's where I am able to   if I don't see any alerts that are of interest, then I can, like I said, go into the site or go into my own intellectual property, for lack of a better phrase, and develop some information that will then take them to the educational materials that I'm always creating   something on CDs, something on DVD, I have updated books that are coming out on the gift basket industry. That helps to bring people to the site to learn more about those products and buy them online or by telephone.

Denise:  OK. Great. Well, that's the idea, isn't it?

Shirley:  Absolutely.

Denise:  So you have two blogs. Is that correct?

Shirley:  Actually I have three, but I have two serious blogs and one that is, in a way, in training. It's like a test blog.

Denise:  OK. And what's the other serious blog?

Shirley:  The other serious blog is the Solo Business Marketing blog. It's complimentary, as with the Gift Basket Business blog, complimentary to the solobusinessmarketing.com website. And I started both of them, actually, I started the website and the blog at the same time.

Denise:  OK.

Shirley:  And I started them because, even though there is a lot of information for small business owners to find marketing materials and learn more about how other people are marketing, I didn't see anything on the web, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I didn't see anything for people who work alone. People who have no staff, who are the chief cook and bottle washer and trying to fit all the pieces together through some outsourcing, but a lot of times doing things on their own.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  So that's why I started that blog, because I thought that was, again, a niche within a niche.

Denise:  OK, so which blog has brought you the most recognition and traffic, do you think?

Shirley:  Oh, the Gift Basket Business blog. In a way, I've been very surprised. Only because, according to statistics, there are more Solo Business owners than there are Gift Basket Business owners. And I think that's because I had the most popular and the best selling books in the world on Gift Basket on the business. I think it's because of that.

That's what draws so many people to the Gift Basket Business blog, whereas my Home Based Marketing book will come out in November and possibly, and hopefully, will draw more people to the Solo Business Marketing blog.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  So I think it's not bad, it's the Solo Business Marketing blog at all. A lot of good traffic, not only organically, but from other blogs that mention the host on the Solo Business Marketing blog.

Denise:  Right. Now, I'd imagine that the Solo Business Marketing blog also supports your Gift Basket customers.

Shirley:  It does, somewhat; there is some crossover. When I publish the Gift Basket Business newsletter, I'm able to site some of the posts on the Solo Business Marketing blog within the Gift Basket Business newsletter. And that does bring quite a bit of traffic to the Solo Business Marketing blog, so they, in a way, do work in conjunction with each other.

Denise:  Right. Good. So, what message worked the best for you to attract people to visit your blogs? What do you do to get traffic?

Shirley:  One thing that I do when I post, when I see information on another blog that is of interest to my readers, first of all, I will post some type of comment on that particular blog. And I don't post as my name, Shirley Frazier.

I do post as "Gift Basket Business", because that brings more people to that blog, and then possibly gets people who are reading that to share the blog's contents with someone who's thinking about starting a Gift Basket Business. Or folks who don't know what to do with their creativity.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  So that's one thing that I do. Another is that offline, I have post cards that I put into the orders that come in through my shopping cart. Post cards encourage either the new or veteran Gift Basket designer to visit the blog. Because sometimes, you will think that a person knows that the blog exists, but as far as I can see from the coding, the post card does bring in more traffic through the blog that way. So, I don't overlook direct mail tactics.

Shirley:  Don't just do everything online. So this post card just tells a person about the website and about the blog and what information that they can find to kind of whet their interest, whet their appetite, and bring them to the blog.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley: And then from the blog, I have very, they are usually, short posts maybe four paragraphs at the most; nothing that's too lengthy. And if there is a lengthy post, then I will break it up onto the next page so the person can go to the next page to read the information if they are interested in it.

Denise:  Right. So you break up your posts, so that they're just a short snip on the front.

Shirley:  Exactly.

Denise:  Excellent.

Patsi:  Well, I'm sure learning a lot here and I'm sure our listeners are, too. We're going to take a brief station break. That's because we want to remind you that you're listening to "Blogging and Beyond" with the Blog Squad with Denise Wakeman and I'm Patsi Krakoff.

And on today's show, we're talking with Shirley Frazier of Sweet Survival. She shares her findings on www.solobusinessmarketing.com and www.giftbasketbusiness.com . You can find information about the Blog Squad at www.blogsquad.biz  and read our blogs at www.buildabetterblog.com , www.biztipsblog.com , and www.coachezines.com .

So, if you have a question for Shirley, you can call in and ask it. That would be at 718 508 9559 and you can also send an instant message via Skype to "Dwakeman." And now, back to "Blogging and Beyond" and our conversation with Shirley Frazier.

Denise:  Thanks, Patsi. Before the break, we were discussing your Gift Basket blog and how you're attracting clients. Shirley, are there any other social media tools that you're using that maybe work on one blog, but maybe not necessarily on the other?

Shirley:  Actually, the social tools that I'm using, I just actually started using some and I'm looking into adding a few more. As I said, Gift Basket Designers are pretty quiet, but then again, I thought to myself, "They may be quiet on the blog, but they might want to comment or post about some other information in another format.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  What I've done is add a bookmarking feature just in case there is a blog post, or even something on the website that a person is interested in finding again right away, or sharing with someone else through the web. Another product that I am getting ready to add is a comment area right below each, other than the blog post, actually on the website, I like to have a new comment box so that a person can post and see their comments right away.

I don't remember the company that I'm using for that, but it seems to be a very easy box for a person to use. That's all that I have in line right now. I'm still determining what else is going to be really good to use and not really spin my wheels so much, and without adding a whole lot of things so that a person would really get confused. [laughs]

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  It's one thing to go from, "I don't know what to post to. Oh my goodness, there is too much to do here!"

Denise:  Right. Well, that's probably a good strategy. I was wondering if you were using podcasting or anything like that.

Shirley:  You know, actually I do have that on the back burner right now. I did go to a pod camp NYC event just some weeks ago in the New York area. It helped me to understand more of how other people are podcasting and how it might fit into what I'm doing for Gift Basket Business owners. Again, I didn't want to add it on if I didn't have a clear schedule for doing so.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  So, I do have some things in the works; gathering information about who could be a guest, what kind of information I would have, and how long the podcast would be.

I didn't want to go into anything without having a clear cut focus on it. That is something that I encourage for others who are in a niche, or thinking of developing one, not being so overwhelmed with everything, and just paring it down to determine what's going to be best for the people that you're trying to reach.

Denise:  Right. Well, I think that's good advice. Now, you just mentioned about someone going into a specialized niche. What kind of advice would you have for somebody who's thinking about starting a niche? How do you go about researching that niche? How did you get involved in your niche?

Shirley:  Well, the way I got into my niche, for lack of a better way of saying it, I guess it would be as strange a way as anyone else would get into a niche. I have entrepreneurs in my family that go back into the 1890's, where a great grandmother of mine in Virginia grew strawberries and shipped them to Manhattan during that time.

And I have other entrepreneurs in my family and I've always been bitten by the entrepreneurial bug. My husband ended up putting a gift together for a friend. He just used a small bottle of liqueur and took a shot glass and glued rocks to the bottom, put Saran Wrap around the whole thing, and that's how I got into the whole Gift Basket Business.

Shirley:  Just by looking at a little gift that had nothing to do with a basket. From there, it was a whole lot of research that I did. Research meaning, I went to trade shows to help me understand about gift baskets and what went inside of them, and the players in the industry. Who were the people who were at the top of the industry at that time?

I not only went to trade shows in town, but then I started traveling to learn more about the business before entering it. Once I did that, I found myself not only creating gift baskets for entertainers and politicians and everyday people, but also sharing information through newsletters and articles in trade magazines and gift industry magazines.

And that's what helped me build who I am today, along with my books and appearing on some television shows: Food Network, and CNBC at times, to share information about this particular niche and how a person would go about getting into it.

What I would advise other people to do for any type of niche that they're going into, is first of all, even if you have not participated in the industry, it goes without saying that you want to know absolutely everything you can know, small or large, about the industry that you want to focus on. And information that you want to share with other people.

One thing that I have thought, and I finally stopped thinking it the beginning of this year, is that people know as much as I do about certain things in the industry. And the more that I consult with people who are getting into the industry, or have been in it for five years, the more I realize that people really don't see things the way that I see them.

Which is a good thing for them, because then they can run with the information that I share with them and turn it into a profitable business. So, knowing as much as you can and never giving up on finding information, whether it's statistics   so many people want to know about statistics in a niche blog. Sometimes you have to go to the IRS, or some part of the U.S. government to find statistics about a niche.

Denise:  Sure.

Shirley:  And it's something that people love to take to their banker so that they can possibly get funding for the kind of business that they want to go into. Any other little nitty gritty information.

Denise:  Right.

Patsi:  That's the deal. I just wanted to add something to your perfect example of what Chris Anderson talks about in his book, "The Long Tale." Are you familiar with that?

Shirley:  I am, yes.

Patsi:  Well, this is perfect. In other words, Solo Business Marketing has a large audience and a lot of people in that niche. And Gift Baskets has clearly defined specific targets of smaller groups of people, but has great potential, especially in light of the fact that you're probably the only one or the primary person in that field.

Shirley:  Very true. There are really three, of what I would call, legitimate blogs on the gift basket business, or targeting themselves to the gift basket business. The rest are, of course, blogs. But there's another blog, which is giftbasketbusinessworld.com.

And another one, which is published by a wholesaler called Apex Gift Foods. They are a supplier to the gift basket industry, and because their niche is supplying professionals with the food, the gifts, the baskets, the shred, and everything like that, one of the owners decided to have a blog to, again, just share information to bring more traffic to the site and to increase their sales. And it's working wonderfully for them.

Denise:  Yeah, that's another perfect example.

Shirley:  That's perfect, yeah.

Denise:  So, one final question before we wrap up, another question asking for your advice. So the person has their niche, they've done their research. How would you advise going about starting a blog that would cater to an industry?

Shirley:  Oh, yes. Well, first of all, I don't want to start with a "don't" but try not to become as fastidious as I was with the blog. I was so overwhelmed with trying to get the blog online, that I didn't know a post from a message from a page. Within the back of the blog, I would say, first of all, before starting the blog, not only understanding your market, but understanding the type of information that you're going to share with the market.

And have a list, just like a brainstorming list, of the kinds of information you're deciding to put in the blog. Because just like any other space on the web, after six months if you have not drawn a map to the kinds of information that you're going to share, you may lose speed with sharing information, with posting.

And then you'll get a bit frustrated, especially if no one comments on your blog. Therefore, you want to have kind of a road map of the types of information that you will place on the blog, types of links that you will have, and your vision. Whether it is just sharing information or selling your educational materials, DVDs, and other things that you want to do to make money from the blog.

So that by deciding what you're going to do, say in a nine month to a year process, that will really get your blog going and keep your motivation high, instead of sporadically saying to yourself, "I'm going to write about this, and I hope somebody comments because I'm not going to write any more if no one else does."

They don't really know where you have your niche blog. Really have things mapped out.

Patsi:  Right. I think that's really important.

Shirley:  Yes. And if no one comments, that doesn't mean that no one is reading it.

Patsi:  Exactly.

Shirley:  Look at the statistics, look at what the most popular posts are, according to the analysis that you have. And piggyback on that.

Denise:  Right.

Shirley:  And that could be the starting point of something very big    to more materials that you create, to quick ebooks or anything else that you assemble.

Patsi:  Right, absolutely. Well, Shirley, this has really been informative. I have a couple of announcements before we wrap up and say goodbye. I'd like our listeners to know that next week on Blogging and Beyond, we are interviewing Jim Turner, of One By One Media and Bloggers For Hire. And he's going to talk to us about the emerging trend of hiring professional bloggers.

So, tune in on May 10 at 3 pm Pacific time, 6 pm on the East Coast for the show. And one more important announcement before we sign off, I'd like to invite listeners to go to http://www.theblogsquad.net/mentor  and check out our mentor program.

Denise:  And remember, you can find Shirley Frazier at www.solobusinessmarketing.com  and www.giftbasketbusiness.com . Is there any other URL you want to add there, Shirley?

Shirley:   a fun photography blog.

Denise:  OK.

Shirley:  It's www.laughingchow.com  and that's named after Pepper, my chow chow. It's www.laughingchow.com  and it's just a great unwinding blog about taking photographs without worrying about aperture and all the other technical words that come into photography. It's like an irreverent blog, and I have another gift basket blog coming out there.

Denise:  Oh, my gosh.

Shirley:  The site and the blog will be www.giftbaskettutorial.com .

Denise:  Excellent.

Shirley:  It will show video tutorials and have many tools, too, for people to comment on, what created the videos that I'm showing on the site.

Patsi:  Great.

Denise:  Excellent.

Patsi:  So, Shirley, thank you. This has been a great discussion today and we appreciate you sharing your experience about blogging.

Shirley:  Thank you so much, it's been a pleasure to share information with all the listeners.

Patsi:  OK. So, you've been listening to "Blogging and Beyond" on BlogTalkRadio. Remember, the time is now.

Denise:  The time is now to attract, sell, and profit. Blog on!

About the The Blog Squad:

Blogging experts Patsi Krakoff and Denise Wakeman are known as The Blog Squad™. They have teamed up to help professionals Attract, Sell and Profit by harnessing the power of blogs, newsletters, and ecommerce systems. Between them they have 17 years of Internet know-how, write on 10 blogs and publish 2 ezines.

Patsi and Denise have co-authored, "Build a Better Blog: The Ultimate Guide to Boosting Your Business with a Professional Blog" and many other blogging programs to address niche

They host a Blogging and Beyond, a weekly Internet radio show. You can get their free weekly ezine Savvy eBiz Tips at www.SavvyeBizTips.com.

Blogging and Beyond: Lena West
 
Announcer:  Blog Talk Radio.

Denise Wakeman:  Hi, this is Denise Wakeman of The Blog Squad.

Patsi Krakoff:  And this is Patsi Krakoff.

Denise:  And you're listening to "Blogging and Beyond," the show about how to leverage the Internet to attract, sell and profit, and we're back. This is our first show on Blog Talk Radio and we are going to a new format which is 30 minutes, and we still plan on bringing you the best expert information on how to leverage the Internet for your business so you can attract, sell and profit.

Today, during our show we're going to be talking about the state of the blogosphere and our guest expert is Lena West CEO of xynoMedia Technology and she's going to be showing information on what's working and what's not as well as how to manage the overwhelming amount of social media tools sprouting all over the web. Patsi?

Patsi:  Yes. A few words about Lena first. Lena West is the CEO and Chief Strategist at xynoMedia Technology affectionately known as the "geek with speak." Lena understands complex technology concepts and then distills them into easy to understand strategies for you. xynoMedia helps growing businesses make sense of their place in the online world by developing customized, progressive Internet strategies that consistently increase thought leadership, online revenues and visibility.

She communicates her expertise about social media, web 2.0 and online technologies through regular writing for Jupitermedia, her new InfoWorld.com blog and soon her upcoming Entrepreneur.com column and blog. She is also on the BlogHer Business Advisory Board and a member of the Women's Presidents' Organization, TENG NY and the Downtown Women's Club. Welcome, Lena!

Lena:  Thank you so much ladies! It's great to be here, I'm honored.

Denise:  Well, Lena, I want to welcome you also, and also tell our listeners that we met you in person. I've been hearing about you for a long time through various colleagues, but we met you in person at BlogHer Business Conference last month in New York City. And, since I've met you I could feel like all this incredible great energy and I saw that you were really, you know, you knew your stuff for sure, so we had to get you on the show.

Lena:  Thanks so much. It was great. I mean c'mon you guys were the BlogSquad, it was great to meet you too. You're like legends. It's like meeting Batman...

Denise:  Well Patsi does say we swoop out of the blogosphere to rescue boring blogs, but you know...

Lena:  And you do a great job of it.

Denise:  OK. Well, thanks. Well, let's jump in. You call yourself an Internet strategist. Could you tell us a little bit about what that means for you and your clients.

Lena:  Yeah, anyone kind of gets this thing, I'm sure you've encountered this, when you're talking to potential clients or just people in general, when you start talking about technology they get this very "frightened deer in head lights" kind of look on their face and they do a mental shut down. And you can almost hear the gears in their heads grinding to a halt.

Lena:  So I try to, you know instead of saying, "Yeah, you know I'm a certified technologist, bla, bla, bla," I try to make what I call myself a little bit more user friendly, that's the "geek with speak" stuff again. So I said, "Well what is it that we really do?" We are Internet Strategists. So essentially, in a nutshell what we do is we help companies profit from the power of the Internet and Social Media in whatever form that happens to take. Sometimes it's a blog, sometimes it's a podcast, sometimes it's a web community, we never know, we take each client on a case by case basis. So, that's to us what Internet Strategy is.

Denise:  And, of course, there is no one size fits all solution when it comes to the Internet and a client.

Lena:  Oh, Good grief no! But, I think, [laughs], the mass media has done such a great job of giving such hype that it seems almost like it's magic in a box, like ooooh, you know, start a blog and be rich tomorrow and it's so "not that."

Denise:   Right. Now, if that were the case I would be on a beach somewhere.

Lena:  Yeah.

Denise:  OK. So we build this as a sort of the state of the blogosphere discussion or conversation, so I'd be curious to know what you're seeing with your business clients about how they're leveraging the blogosphere and what's working and what's not.

Lena:  Well, you know, what I have to say to the credits of clients that are coming to the door is that everyone has a genuine curiosity. I think that it's becoming, although it was in the very beginning a lot about "well, the competition has a blog and we want one too," "the competition has a podcast and we want one too," the very "keep up with the Johnses" but now what's happening is there's genuine curiosity about "OK, what is this stuff and what do we do with it" and not just mimicry but "what can we do that's unique and original." So the trend that I'm seeing with small business and also with some mid sized companies that we're working with too, believe it or not, is genuine curiosity and really stepping up to the plate and saying, "OK, we're ready to play ball now."

Denise:  OK. Now that's good. So they're looking at ways that they can actually use it to promo.., not promote their business, but to grow their business let's say.

Lena:  Yeah. Use it to grow their business, absolutely. But what I'm loving that I'm seeing is also the willingness to come to the table with a unique take. So, it's that leadership stuff again. It's that "here's what we have to say that's unique and this is the message we want to get across and it's not the same rehashed material." So I think they're taking a little bit more time now to think about things a little bit more.

Denise:  Good.

Patsi:  Lena, I hear you saying that they're coming to you maybe already knowing what a blog is, already knowing what a podcast is.

Lena:   I wish.

Denise:  OK. They think they know.

Lena:  Yeah. Some have heard of it. Some have even listened to a podcast. I actually spoke to about a group of 70 local business executives earlier today. And you know, I would say about 2/3 of the audience had listened to a podcast, several of them had their own blogs, almost every one had a website. So, I'm really starting to be more and more impressed and you know, as a friend of mine says "I'm always willing to be surprised."

Denise:  Good. Good. So what's in that realm of educating and people to you with what they thought about at least, what's not working for them when they start to learn about, you know, their options.

Lena:  Well, I think that what is not working is the jumping in without figuring out what you need to do first. I don't think that that's working.

What I'm finding is that the more they take the time to step back and say, "OK, what is this," and develop a plan and develop a strategy and, "What are we really going to do, and who is going to do the work and who is not, and what are we going to say and what do we have to say," the more they can do that, the better. But what I'm finding is they will say, "Oh, this is about technology." And everyone thinks that just because technology is ubiquitous, and because Microsoft and Apple have done such a great job at making things user friendly, that "Oh, I should be able to do this on my own, and quick snap in a hurry it's done."

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  And it's just not that. So the "I'm going to dive in headfirst" approach is not working. But in terms of specifics, I'm finding  I don't know what you guys are seeing, I'd be interested to hear as well  online video is working really, really well. Video casts are really, really working for a lot of companies.

Denise:  Yeah, we haven't moved that far into video yet.

Lena:  OK.

Denise:  I mean, a little bit. We've dabbled our toes in it, but not for our clients so much. But I do find that from my point of view of what I'm seeing and hearing, that people want to explore that.

I was talking with a client this week who said "Well, we could do videos!" and they have a retail store and it would be perfect for them because it would allow people to see how  it is a retail bakery and restaurant  how people, how a cake gets made or something like that. It could be actually interesting, you know, rather than just a talking head. So they were really willing to embrace that; and a year and a half ago they didn't even want to have a blog.

Lena:  And then also keep in mind, I think it is important for people to understand how bigger news stories can affect them and affect their businesses. So everyone says "Well why do you think online video is really taking off the way it is?" Well, if you look at it like this: everyone knows that recently Google bought YouTube, right? I mean that's the deal; it was a huge deal, billion dollar deal, whatever, right?

Denise:  Yes.

Lena:  A whole bunch of hoo hah around that. But what they also need to know is that subsequently  which was like, duh, surprise, surprise  Viacom then sued Google because of copyright infringement and all kinds of uses of their content that were completely illegal, against the rules, whatever.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  But what that means now is  Viacom content made up a substantial part of the content on the YouTube network  so what happens now that all the Viacom content is gone off of YouTube, off of the YouTube servers and the YouTube network. What happens now is Google is really looking for video. They need to, in order to be competitive with AOL Video and Yahoo Video, they need to really start to get some video in their coffers.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  And they are also a search company, so they need to have search results to return when people search for videos.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  So it just only stands to reason. OK, Google needs videos, so that means it is high on their priority, so they are going to index videos faster. That is a priority for them right now.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  So that's the kind of driving factor.

Patsi:  Let me ask you this: For videos, besides it being just a fad, to me the major benefit of doing any video is you create such a connection with your reader or viewer, which goes a long ways towards creating trust and converting to sales. Do you find that to be true?

Lena:  Absolutely. I mean, video adds a different element than just audio or text. There is something about seeing a person. It is kind of like  I don't know if you guys remember this, I vaguely do  when you used to read the story about Cinderella and then you saw it on TV or at the movies, and it was just like, "Whoa! That is the same story?"

Patsi:  Right.

Lena:  So that is what happens to companies when they really start to use online video strategically, if that's what happens to work for them and what works best for them. The people that they were just gabbing at and talking to before, now this target market says "Oh! Is that the same company?" and it's that Cinderella effect all over again.

Denise:  Right. Right. OK, well let me ask you this: I've heard you talk about the four way fabric of conversation, and maybe that is kind of what you are getting at right now, could you talk a little bit more about that?

Lena:  Yeah. Up until now there has really only been one way or two way communication that businesses can have with their target markets. So for example, it is the business talking to the potential client or customer, and then it is the potential client or customer talking back to the business. And so it's that one way conversation and then you have got that return conversation, so it's that two way.

But what social media does a great job of is expanding that conversation to three and four way. So now not only are you talking back to your customers, your customers are talking back to you, but also you are able to now talk to groups of your different target markets.

If you happen to be a company that serves two or three different target markets, two or three different types of businesses or industries, now you can talk to groups of these people for that three way conversation.

And then the four way conversation is now these groups and these customers can talk to each other about your products and services. And who doesn't want to be in on that? That is what I call the "fabric of conversation" around your company.

Denise:  That is a great explanation.

Lena:  Thank you.

Patsi:  Fabulous. And I'm sure our listeners are getting some great ideas here, Lena. But this is show business, and as they say, we need to take a station break.

If you have just joined the program you are listening to "Blogging and Beyond" with The Blog Squad on Blog Talk Radio. You can get more information about The Blog Squad at www.blogsquad.biz and get information about the show at www.bloggingandbeyond.com.

Today we are speaking with Lena West of xynoMedia Technology, and you can visit Lena's website at xynomedia.com. If you have a question for Lena you can call in to (718) 508 9559, I'll repeat, (718) 508 9559. Or you can send an IM message via Skype to dwakeman. Now back to our conversation with Lena.

Denise:  Well, speaking of calling in, we do have one caller on the line. So are you open to a question, Lena?

Lena:  I'm always open to questions; I love them.

Denise:  All right, let me open up the line, just a moment.

Lena:  OK.

Denise:  OK, caller from area code 336, you are on the air. Do you have a question? Hello? Caller from area code 336, are you on the line?

Patsi:  We might have dropped him.

Denise:  We lost that person. OK, we'll move on. All right, Lena. We were talking about the trends that you're seeing in business, with your business clients and how they're dealing with the blogosphere and we talked a little bit about, you know, the four fabric conversation and video, how do you work with business owners to manage what I've heard you call social media spaghetti?

Lena:  Don't you love that?

Denise:  I love that term, because that's truly what it is, there's just so much. What can you share with how to help people avoid the overwhelm of everything that's going on out there?

Lena:  Well, the first thing that I hear is, you know what, Lena? This sounds great but, as you know, we were at the blogger conference together, I've got enough trouble with my first life, don't talk to me about second life.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  And where is this time going to come from, because I said earlier, it's not, you know, magic in a box, social media is not magic in a box, you really do have to have a concerted effort, some time set aside, and that's always the initial concern. Number One, do I have enough to talk about and am I going to be able to come up with enough stuff to talk about and enough material, interesting material, engaging material, and Number Two, where am I going to find the time? And my answers to those questions are Number One, what are you going to talk about? OK, what we do when working with clients is we help them create what I called an editorial social media calendar. So that's just like how magazines have an editorial calendar and they tell you "OK, in March we're going to be talking about Health and Wellness, in April, we're going to be talking about finances" and they have this kind of guideline that guides them throughout the year. Well, why not you? You can have the same thing, too.

Denise:  That's fascinating.

Lena:  So what we do is we sit down with them and we work out "OK, well, what do you want to talk about in this month, what do you want to talk about in that month," if it's a customer focused business, we start looking at national holidays to see if we can do some tie ins for possible media coverage, et cetera, et cetera, but what mainly we do is we sit down and we create their social media editorial calendar so that they know what they're going to be talking about, exactly when, what they're going to be writing about on their blog, what they're going to be saying in their pod cast, so they're not sitting there looking at a blank screen.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  Nobody likes that.

Denise:  Right, and that's something that Patsi and I have on some level is that we have a calendar, that's like "you're going to post on this blog on this day," you know, et cetera, so we know what we're doing.

Lena:  Absolutely, and you know, for everyone, for everyone who's listening, if these guys are doing it, it's a pretty safe bet that it's a smart deal to do...

Denise:  Yeah.

Lena:  ...so, they're walking their talk. And the other piece is, how am I going to find the time to do this?

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  And the big thing is, it's all about trade off. You have to figure out what you're not going to do anymore so that you can do this. But before you do that, you've really got to tap into why you're engaging with social media in the first place...

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  ...what is it about social media, blogging, podcasting, that's attractive to you as a business owner, as a person, so that when things do get tough, and trust me they will, this ain't no crystal stair, as they say, when things get tough, you can tap into that little reserve area like "Oh, yeah, this is why I'm doing this."

Denise:  Mm hmm.

Lena:  I met a gentleman today, he is a buyer's agent for people who are selling their home, and what he said was, "There is nobody out there rooting for the buyer. Nobody helps the buyer; everybody helps the seller. And I want to help the buyer so that they don't get the short end of the stick."

And here is someone with obvious passion, so that is his "why" that he is doing it. So you've got to have that. And then once you have that, you have got to figure out what is less important  based on that emotion that I have just unearthed, what is less important than that emotion? Whatever that ends up being, that's what goes. And that is how you make room for social media.

What I do is I have a day where I do nothing but write. Every single Monday I write my entrepreneur column, I write for my InfoWorld blog, I am a guest blogger on other blogs. I write all of my content and I keep a stable of content, so that when I want to go on vacation, like I am going to do at the end of May, beginning of June, it is not a problem because I have things in my stable, my writing stable. But you have to be disciplined.

Denise:  Right, right.

Patsi:  You do.

Denise:  That is for sure. Now that is about talking about writing and producing content. How do you decide which social media tools to use? I mean, at BlogHer everybody was Twittering. You know, I've looked in to Twitter and I just think "How in the world could I possibly add that to my day?"

Lena:  Well, I mean you have to have... I have a certain amount of time that I dedicate every week to   it's almost like reading your trade journal, your trade pub's, right?

Denise:  Right. Right.

Lena:  So if you pick up, if you normally read "Strategy and Business" or "Business 2.0" or "Fast Company" and that is your trade journal that you happen to read, well, it's the same thing. So I have time that is dedicated to just reading the blogs in my trade  what's happening in social media. My clients rely on me to stay abreast of what is going on, what is happening. And I have time.

I don't spend a lot of time on Twitter, but I can tell you that for the right company with the right profile, Twitter might be a great business intelligence tool. You can mine it; you can see what people are saying about your product.

so in order to figure out what social media tools you need to be using, you ought to really figure out what your business goals are. So if you say, "Listen, I want to be invited to more conferences. I want to speak. I want to do more writing. I want to have more opportunities to showcase my expertise," well, you might want to look at a blog or podcast.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  But if you say, "Listen, I am a buyer's agent. I'm tired of buyers getting the short end of the stick, and I want to create a battle cry for every single person in the United States who is looking to buy a house," well, that sounds like a community to me.

Denise:  Right. Right. Right. Well, I think you are absolutely correct in saying you really have to look at what your business model is and who you are trying to reach and what your goals are, because there are so many tools out there now. I mean, we are in a similar position, because it is up to us to know what is going on out there so we can filter it for our clients. And you know, that can overwhelm ME.

Just trying to keep up with it. Because, I like to try everything out first. But you do need to really be clear. We often advise our clients that you find the one that works for you.

Lena:  Absolutely.

Denise:  If you like to talk, it's going to be a podcast probably. If you like to write, it's going to be a blog.

Lena:  I always tell our clients, "Listen, if you won't speak, write. Do something."

Denise:  Right, exactly. Another thing that you talked about a blogger that I really liked, and I can't remember what session it was in. But the conversation was around ROI.

Lena:  Oh yeah.

Denise:  And you made a great point about ROI. Can you talk a little bit about that? You really focused on the I.

Lena:  This is kind of it gets me on my soapbox. It gets me all riled.

Denise:  OK good.

Lena:  I think, as I said, I keep saying this. Social media has had such mainstream media hype. That people think it is magic in a box. They are so focused in the R of ROI the return, that nobody ever stops to think of the "I" the investment. Everyone wants to, oh me, what can I get from this audience? What can I make? What is going to be my return? What is going to be my income? How is this going to increase my revenue?

I mean they are quick to talk about the return, but my question is, what about your investment? What are you willing to do to get the return that you say that you want? What kind of time are you willing to invest? What kind of energy are you willing to invest? What kinds of organizational staff, the resources are you willing to invest to get the return that you say that you want?

I'm sure this has happened with you guys when you talk to a potential client. You say what are your goals? What do you want? If we could waive a magic wand what would you have happen? I want to have a million visitors. OK, well what are you willing to do to get that?

That's not just time resources and energy. Your investment is also your message. Having something unique and interesting to say about whether is going on in your industry or whatever your area of expertise is. That is part of your investment too, because no one wants to hear the same rehashed material over and over. That is laziness.

Denise:  Right, right, and investments resources you talk about money too. A lot of people say I want to do this but I do not have any time. Well, OK.

Lena:  You know what I tell them when they say that? When they say I don't have time. I don't have money. But I want to do social media. I say you know what, don't talk to me, call your local newspaper and take an ad out.

Denise:  Right.

Lena:  Because that is what you are asking for.

Denise:  Right exactly. Patsi, did you have any questions that you wanted to follow up on that with?

Patsi:  I just want to say this is all very interesting. What advice do you give to companies or clients who are just new to the blogosphere?

Lena:  My advice I would have to say, would be, the one thing is to talk to people who are doing it. Before you do the head first thing. Try to get in touch with why you are doing it. Have some sort of an interview with companies that you see are doing things the right way. They are having some success. You are seeing a lot about them as it relates to social media. There blog is kept up. Give them a call. I can tell you, I can talk about myself forever, So if anybody ever calls me and says how is this working for you and how did you do it. I would love to have a conversation with them. So start having conversations with your peers about what they are doing. You know, being the first one to have a support group on Thursdays to just talk and bounce ideas off. If you're part of a mastermind group, bring it up as a topic, see who else is doing it. Ask the hard questions.

And if you're in a company and you must   if you hear nothing else that I say today   if you're in a company where it's more than just you, if you've got a team that you're working with, the top down 'this is what we're going to do' push change management doesn't work. Social media is all about community and conversation. And the way that you foster that to the public is by having that as a foundational element in your business.

So if you are the decision maker in your business and you decide this is what you want to do, talk to your team. Get them engaged, get their ideas. Because study after study has shown that when you get your team engaged prior to getting them on board before you launch your initiative, your initiative is more likely to succeed.

Denise:  Write a contest, ask them their opinion.

Lena:  Exactly.

Denise:  Buy in.

Lena:  Sure, absolutely. Buy in.

Denise:  OK. Well, for a final question, Lena, because we know you're time is valuable. What do you think is next for the blogosphere? Where should we be paying our attention?

Lena:  You know, I think what's next for the blogosphere, or all of these alternative realities, these new publics, as they're called. So, the second life there, all of these kinds of new worlds, alternative universes, I think, are really coming up to something.

What I'm not so sure, every week, I take some time away from the office and I just think about, "Hmm, what could be next? What do I see? How can I connect the dots, in terms of the trends that I'm seeing?' And I really do believe that the lines are going to be blurring more between business and e business   I should say business and social media   just like they did with business and e business.

Denise:  Mm hmm.

Lena:  So before, it was, "Oh gosh, it's all about my Internet sales!' Now, it's like, "Revenue is revenue." [laughs]

Denise:  Right. It doesn't matter where it's coming from.

Lena:  Exactly. So soon, it's going to be left without social media and brick and mortar and it's going to be more about, "OK, market share is market share, mind share is mind share."

Denise:  Right.

Patsi:  Yeah. Right, well said. Well, thanks so much, Lena.

Lena:  Thank you!

Patsi:  This has been fun!

Lena:  This is great, I love this! I can chat with you ladies forever.

Denise:  Well, you know it's amazing how fast 30 minutes goes by.

Lena:  Oh gosh, yes.

Denise:  And I believe you're going to be at Posticon, right?

Lena:  I sure am. June 1st and June 2nd.

Denise:  Right. So we will have a chance to chat again.

Lena:  Love it.

Patsi:  All right, well we've been talking with Lena West of xynoMedia Technology. Coming up next Thursday at 6p.m. ET, that's 3 p.m. Pacific Time on "Blogging and Beyond," we'll be interviewing Nancy Marmolejo about leveraging MySpace for marketing your business.

If you have questions you'd like us to address next week on the show, please go to www.bloggingandbeyond.com and use the "comments" link on any post to submit your question.

Denise:  And on behalf of the Blog Squad, we thank our listeners for tuning in once again and we look forward to seeing you around the blogosphere. You can find us at blogsquad.biz and information about future shows at bloggingandbeyond.com.

And remember: the time is now, it's happening now. Don't wait to get started. You can learn how to leverage the Internet to attract sales and profit. So, until next week, blog on!

Patsi:  Blog on!

Denise:  Thank you, Lena.

Lena:  Thanks.

Patsi:  Bye bye.

Lena:  Bye.